Gov't could track all emails and phone calls

Gandalph said on Wednesday, 21 May 2008

George Orwell's Big Brother is watching you definitely comes to mind here.

Mr J Lewis said on Wednesday, 21 May 2008

I would not object to my details being stored on a government database providing they can assure me that they would be 100% safe from being lost or stolen. It is my opinion that all those who object have something to hide. All good living upright ctizens should welcome such a database that helps the government to beat crime and terrorism.

meandmymum said on Wednesday, 21 May 2008

It sounds like a good idea until you really think about it. What would be the next step? Having once recorded all our calls and emails what would there be to stop another, less benign, government than our present one from say taking note of all conversations about religion or politics that do not quite fit their view of proper? Once they have done that they might be tempted to group all the dessenters in one place to keep an eye on them. Its happened before.

P Joy said on Wednesday, 21 May 2008

What's the next step, checking all our letters and keeping copies of them and then after that checking all our parcels?
Those that see nothing wrong in this must be very nieve to think that this ok.
As for helping to stop terrorism, I am sure that those invold in such activities will get around this.
What about the cost of storing all this data? Let me guess who will pay, it will be me and the rest of the population.

P Joy said on Wednesday, 21 May 2008

What's the next step, checking all our letters and keeping copies of them and then after that checking all our parcels?
Those that see nothing wrong in this must be very nieve to think that this ok.
As for helping to stop terrorism, I am sure that those invold in such activities will get around this.
What about the cost of storing all this data? Let me guess who will pay, it will be me and the rest of the population.

Roy Eaton said on Wednesday, 21 May 2008

This is a frightening extension of the powers of government. 1984 occurring rather later than anticipated by George Orwell but happening nevertheless. Coupled with all the other infringements of our civil liberties in the name of the Fight against terrorism makes me think that the terrorists are winning and society is losing.

Bill said on Wednesday, 21 May 2008

I don't pay taxes to my government to fund (unworkable) schemes to turn my country into an open prison. Take back your CCTVs, abandon the insane ID card scheme, drop the plan to install tracking devices in our cars and just see how much we'll all save in taxes - and how much more freedom we'll all be afforded.

Glenn IQ160 said on Wednesday, 21 May 2008

Part 1

Well perhaps something that most people don't know is that there is already a system like this in place within the UK. MI5 have a multi-million pound system called 'Echelon' based in a floor at their 'Thames House' office in London, and the purpose of it is to monitor every piece of telecommunications data for key words or 'hits' before passing it on to an intelligence officer for review. At the moment the system is purely designed to monitor telephone, email and internet traffic for the purpose of tackling terrorism, so anything with a word such as bomb, explosive, nuclear, etc or the names of any of our own politicians, key military operatives or those of our allies overseas would flag that communication up as a 'hit'. All emails, texts, calls, etc are continually recorded and once Echelon recognises a key word or a randomised correlation between a few key words, it then diverts it to a handler who will review it and either dismiss it or flag it for further action.

Glenn IQ160 said on Wednesday, 21 May 2008

Part 2

Of course this sounds a bit far fetched but then again the Echelon system has been in place and operating under our noses for a number of years now and its usage is something that is subject to constant speculation, cover-ups and dismissal. However all those who knew of it always knew that it would become more widespread one day, hence the basis for the current parliamentary bill. Its interesting to note the references to Orwells 'Big Brother' but a more realistic reference can perhaps be seen in the book 'V for Vendetta' - believe me, we are so close to mimicking that as a reality that it poses a compelling argument for our governments reliance upon monitoring technology. Most of the law-abiding citizens will not have a problem with the governments proposal, after all if you have nothing to hide then why worry.

GlennIQ160 said on Wednesday, 21 May 2008

Part 3

However the reality is that the government will end up with an unfeasible amount of electronic data pertaining to recorded conversations, etc that is not only an infringement on our human rights, but is simply unnecassary and we will end up paying for its secure storage. Also the data could ultimately negate the need for human based intelligence in detecting and solving crime and this is never a good thing - justice shouldn't be so clear-cut as we only learn and develop from the mistakes we make. However perhaps the sad part about it is that the government could have easily utilised the current Echelon system to assist our police forces in solving many thousands of crimes throughout the country, but then again god-forbid if our military machine could not be profit when our country diverted our resource into tackling UK domestic issues rather than foreign ones - imagine that tragedy Mr. Brown.

GlennIQ160 said on Wednesday, 21 May 2008

Pt 4

Oh one more thing - if you want to have a bit of fun with MI5 - write yourself a couple of identical emails - keep the body of the text identical but title one of them 'Dinner Invite' and the other 'Plans to Kill Gordon Brown' or something just as outrageous. Send the 'kill Gordon Brown' email first the send the dinner invite 2nd - if the system isnt too busy today you should find that your 'Dinner Invite' email will arrive first, while the other one arrives late after a handler has reviewed it. Its petty I know, but hey - we're paying for the thing so we should at least keep them on their toes! :)

nogo said on Wednesday, 21 May 2008

let me just say that no goverment department is a safe house for keeping information,

still now all over the uk in high security, ilegal emergrants are working,and not just ground level security, so who is to say that this daft idea has not come from one of them,

I have no harm in them working, as a lot of them work hard, but to employ security firms who them self's employ in tight securtiy of the nation,

LOOK at Number 10 and if it can not be, secure, what will. Like every penny that the M.P.s and the the rest of all local and goverment have taken, to be returned to the coffers, and used to pay for equipment, for health,and forces,,alike,

chris2var said on Wednesday, 21 May 2008

What use is all this? if you've got PGP then the government can't see anything, what about sticking your "kill GB" within a jpg I've a program for hiding info within pictures ... mobile phones are encrypted, even if there is a back door, well hey buy a PAYG (but do it with cash), you can pin point exactly where you are when it's used but then you'd move on. The only people who will be effected are the "ordinary" people - the people paying for it and having leaked and lost. the criminals and terrorists will get away with it unless they are too thick to realise what is going on in the first place.

Graham Darn said on Wednesday, 21 May 2008

With our government's past record on implementing anything I.T. I can see this system being totally inadequate and would possibly back up into the free flow of traffic bringing the whole British network to a standstill. No business data, banking data or even governments own business data would get entangled. I don't trust them one bit. Otherwise it's a sound idea!!!!!

Anonymous said on Wednesday, 21 May 2008

This is yet another indication of the paranoid psychosis that is currently affecting governments of all political persuasions - the "we know best" and "it's really for your own good, you know" mentality. If you thought that Stalin's Soviet Union was unquestionably the "evil empire", believe me "you ain't seen nothin' yet". In time, every home will be chock full of compulsory government spy-cams monitoring what you do & precisely when you do it 24/7, intercepting your waking thoughts and eating & drinking habits etc. Think it can't happen.....well, mark my words, if pets can be 'chipped', you'll probably be next in line......maybe George Orwell had a point after all !!!

Buckland said on Wednesday, 21 May 2008

Dorset's NHS Primary Care Trust pursues a costly PR exercise to have personal Medical Records copied from G.P. Surgeries' to a Government Central Data Base. A glossy letter available in 30 Languages - including two Somali dialects - and others offered - all for Dorset which is very rural not cosmopolitan!. Objections by 8th September, 2008, or your records will be transferred anyway. This guaranteed (?) Secure Data system, opened with a card/word entry, should assist the Home Office scheme offering a check for the Who's Who Big Brother Bible under preparation by the EU Continental bureaucrats. We can only stall as this whole business is required by the faceless people in the EU at Brussels. As long as this Government kow tows the line your name will go in the Book. Might we receive junk mail from Pharmaceutical Companies offering their goodies for health conditions recorded. IT is by nature not secure and never will be as this Government has so comprehensively proved.

BisSanta said on Wednesday, 21 May 2008

Mr J Lewis

I couldn't agree more,and i for one would support a further measure in protecting the honest law abiding public,and that would be to give any government agency their own secure key to our homes.

This way,uk government could freely walk in and search our homes ,in order to prevent crimes and keep us safe from the unruly types out there of course.

//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Shield_Project

And to think of all the bad press that The Golden Shield Project in china gets,totally uncalled for ,considering it's something that protects it's citizens.

It's not something a free,democratic country country like we're told we live in would EVER see here.

Is it.

sixtiesblue said on Wednesday, 21 May 2008

If they bug us we can use the opportunity to tell this rubbish government what we really think of them.
Keep data secure - what a joke!

David Glen said on Wednesday, 21 May 2008

Circa 1940-1 the citizens of Holland Belgium and France were obliged by the Protecting Power, Germany, to present themselves, within a certain time limit, to be interviewed,
photographed and fingerprinted. This was all perfectly legal under international law. If you have nothing to hide then you have nothing to fear. A few red faces there then. Do we never learn?

Itsmemike said on Wednesday, 21 May 2008

The USSR used its People to inform on their Neighbours misdeeds. The Fascists of Germany employed the Gestapo on a daily basis. This fascist Government of ours wants and Will spy on their People, using IT. I'm happy to add my name to their list, for I have nothing to hide.

Denis Revell said on Wednesday, 21 May 2008

I would be surprised if we are not told we are going to be bar coded to prevent crime, our jails are full to overflowing they are better looked after and have more rights than the average tax payer. What wonderful scheme will they come up with next I have worked all my life paid my taxes I have done their bidding and this is still not enough, the truth is they don't know who they let in to this country so we all suffer Tony Blair caused this with his stupid war in Iraq if he had kept his nose out like the one million people who demonstrated against it called for we would not be in this position

Anonymous said on Thursday, 22 May 2008

Re: "(The Golden Shield Project) is not something we would EVER see here". Read your history books ! In ancient Greece, many citizens had no compunction whatsoever about retaining & using slaves, whilst women were generally regarded as little more than chattels. All male Athenian citizens were eligible to speak and vote in the Assembly, but political rights or citizenship were not granted to women, slaves, or metics. I'm deeply sorry to disillusion you, but if you seriously believe that the UK is currently "a free democratic country", IMHO with the very greatest respect, you are sadly mistaken ! What we live in is 'relative freedom' by comparison with dictatorships such as North Korea or Zimbabwe etc, but a country without a Bill of Rights that is controlled by unelected bureaucrats in Brussels & Strasbourg can hardly be described as a true democracy ? Never forget that Great Britain still remains a Monarchy and we are 'subjects' of the Crown, unless or until the 'status quo' changes.

Steve Mason said on Thursday, 22 May 2008

Police State here we come. Why not just implant a chip in everyone, the same way we do with pets, and just be done with it. We can then pay all of salary to Gordon Brown and he can then let us have some pocket money.
There are two ways around this - a) Vote them out of office and b) leave the UK. I am planning on doing both.

Jim Holder said on Thursday, 22 May 2008

I have no concerns. This Government is incapable of differentiating between its arse and its elbow. Data stored on a Government database is, by definition, irretrievable!

Jon said on Thursday, 22 May 2008

Unless the UK Government is no longer a member of the UN, or no longer recognises the UN's Universal Declaration of Human Rights, then this proposal is illegal.

As someoine posted on another forum - it's covered under article 14 of the above declaration:

"No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks."

I they carry on, we could get the whole load of them declared illegal, and we could ask the UN to step in and remove them from power, charge them with human rights violations and do to them what they do to all petty tyrannies ... Ahh, A man can dream :)

nigel, birmingham said on Thursday, 22 May 2008

Criminals etc will just download encryption software and use that so it will take loads of computing power to de-code and more expence for tax payer. I will use it myself if law goes thru and encrpyt e-mail to my friends

Les Mitchell said on Thursday, 22 May 2008

No! No! No! This is an invasion of privacy and of human rights. Like many others, I believe the government is incapable of "securing" this information. Tap the phones of suspects, intercept the e-mails of possible dissidents, but DO NOT treat the entire electorate as terrorists and criminals; you do NOT have that right.

Ron Hollis said on Thursday, 22 May 2008

Some deluded people claim "If you have nothing to hide..". It’s wise to remember your faith, ethnicity, politics etc can easily become undesirable to a state. For instance; who can foresee if under the stresses of global warming, scarce resources etc, democracy is seen as a barrier to 'good' government and repressed under emergency legislation. Democrats could quickly become enemies of the state. Remember:-

First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists and I did not speak out because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me.
Pastor M Niemöller

It is wise to be cautious before allowing the state extra powers against its ‘enemies’. The powers always extend beyond the obvious and politicians that claim new legislation is limited are always misleading or misled.

Mike said on Thursday, 22 May 2008

No problems here. Since when has any Govt. Software worked? Also I can see a democratic call for hacking it to pieces if it shows any signs of functionality. In fact it's a citizens duty! As for data security. Thats a laugh as we all know. How can it not effect the "privacy" of the public if "all" emails and "all" telecons are monitored? Write to your MP and tell him what you want done with these proposals, politely if possible.

jspamkill said on Friday, 23 May 2008

Talking about government spies is interesting but
ineffective. A simple action to overload this monitoring would be for everyone to insert a paragraph of key words in all their communications like HATE BOMB MURDER EXPLOSION POLITICIANS EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE so they all have to be reviewed.

ft1a3c9hvq said on Friday, 23 May 2008

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Grangehearts said on Friday, 23 May 2008

Sorry, but this Orwellian proposal leaves me speechless. Their cunning masterplan however has began to be revealed. Cripple or kill the postal system by closing down post offices and taking away all that revenue they got from dealing with the governments licencing and benefits.

Force everyone to use telephony and e-mail to communicate by this method, then monitor the lot in the name of defending our human rights. Masterfull.

The government spokesman is right though, it won't compromise the public's privacy, it'll just make us actually go back to writing to people and talking to them face to face. Terrorism stopped in an instant, I mean what terrorist is going to be intelligent enough to actually meet with his accomplancies and talk to them face to face, draw up a list of code words and then use them in innocent sounding phone calls and e-mails.

SQUIRE said on Saturday, 24 May 2008

Old Glenn IQ160 pretty much said it all, but something I don't understand is how you're going to stop the Government from doing whatever they want, when you Brits have bowed to them so many times in the past, you're still paying to watch TV, what's that all about?

Anonymous said on Saturday, 24 May 2008

Here is a salutary story for you to mull over ! Many years ago we were motoring around western Europe & whilst driving through Austria, were looking for an inexpensive pensione at which to stay for the night. It just so happened that this particular B&B was located only a few kilometres away from an infamous former Nazi concentration camp and over breakfast the following morning, in broken German I managed to converse with the elderly proprietress. I politely said to her: "Living so close to this camp, you must surely have had some idea of what was going on" to which she replied, "Oh no, you have to believe me when I tell you that it was only after the war that we actually discovered what had occurred there" ! You might ask yourselves, how could such atrocities have taken place under the very noses of the local populace without them realising what was going on ? Innocence is bliss & Britain is compliantly sleepwalking towards a police state without even realising it. God help us all !

Peter Crump said on Saturday, 24 May 2008

They must be joking. Government Database today - on YouTube tomorrow.

Thorrun said on Saturday, 24 May 2008

The government prove its ability to keep data secure? There's more chance of getting George Bush to explain Einstein's Theory of Relativity!

adenuf said on Sunday, 25 May 2008

I've read that this is yet another product from the EU gravy train numptys.
Must have been from the former communist states as this is what they specialised in, spying on the population and keeping people in the states eye.
There is too much going through parliament in this line (to say nothing of the ones being sneaked in via the ministerial powers act) and politicians keep saying its only small changes for our own good.
Trouble is many small changes make one enormous change and loss of freeedom.
This government was busy destroying Britains independance and human rights of the people under Blair and Brown is even worse.

Mr T Glynn said on Sunday, 01 June 2008

Welcome to My world. Born in 1945 at the end of 1 of the worlds Greatest Conflicts,in which millions of British men @ there allies gave there lives to rid us of oppresion etc, our own miss guided Idiots wish to turn everybody into Criminals.
AS a motorist I am apotental criminal as a smoker I am an Ostrasized criminal and now as an ocaisonal E mailer and mobile phone user it seems I am becoming a third time looser. How long is it going to be before they want to tax us on our use of technology directly.
Wake up and revolt use your machines and Email@ phone your M P,and tell them very strongly ditch this insanity or we will ditch you

adenuf said on Saturday, 07 June 2008

You could be right about taxing our technology, my PC is set to ask before accepting cookies and its surprising how often TV licensing attempts to put a cookie on, without me looking at a related site.
PC = screen = TV ?????

james14hawks said on Saturday, 14 June 2008

Bad,bad idea. the govt using the excuse that they're doing it to protect us from the terroists. But where will it all end? Think how many times the govt has lost or misplaced information? It's becoming a smaller and smaller world people!