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Networking Help


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Network within a network?


j.wallace1990

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Hi everyone,

I've recently moved into a new flat above a pub. The pub has internet which we are free to use but there it is an open network with no password protection and I don't feel comfortable connecting all my devices to it.

My question is: Is it possible to create another network within the existing one? Perhaps by using another router with a password protecting it?

Thanks,

Jon

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mgmcc

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If you can access the pub's router by ethernet cable then you could connect a "Cable/DSL" Router (i.e. one without a built-in ADSL Modem) to it and run your own network in a separate Subnet (IP address range) from that used by direct connections to the pub's router.

If you must connect "wirelessly" to the pub's router, you would require a "Wireless Network Bridge" to connect to the pub and would then connect your "Cable/DSL" router to that for a separate subnet.

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j.wallace1990

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Yeah I can access the router so wiring another one to it shouldn't be a problem. Would I be able to make said new network wireless and then connect other equipment such as PS3, home media server etc to it via ethernet?

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mgmcc

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If you connect your own wireless Cable/DSL router to the pub's router then you will have your own wired & wireless network.

Normally, a Cable/DSL Router connects by ethernet to a separate broadband modem and its (the router's) WAN IP address is the Internet address as allocated by the ISP. In your case, because you are connecting to the pub's router, your own router's WAN IP address will actually be a LAN IP address allocated from the pub router's DHCP server.

For example, if the Pub Router's IP address is 192.168.1.1 it can allocate addresses from 192.168.1.2 to 192.168.1.254 and your router will get one of these addresses as its WAN address. It is essential that your own router operates in a different Subnet from the Pub router. Therefore, if the Pub router's IP address is 192.168.1.1, your router needs to be set to something like 192.168.2.1 or 192.168.3.1 etc (the third octet of the IP address must be different). Your router will then allocate addresses in the different Subnet (range) from the pub's router and it is the function of the "Subnet Mask" (whose address is 255.255.255.0) to prevent the pub router's clients from accessing your network.

...if that makes sense.

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j.wallace1990

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Ok, you'll have to bear with me as I'm a complete newbie to networking.

I've arranged to upgrade our internet and as part of the package they'll be giving us an all-in-one router/modem, leaving me with the current router I have as a spare.

So is it best to run the private network or the pub network from the other router? And wired or wirelessly? 

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mgmcc

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"I've arranged to upgrade our internet and as part of the package they'll be giving us an all-in-one router/modem, leaving me with the current router I have as a spare."

I understood that you intended to get your internet access from the pub's connection and you wouldn't therefore have your own separate internet package. ????

If you are going to connect a second router to the pub's router, to create your own network in a separate subnet, it must be a Cable/DSL Router of the type normally used for Cable broadband. A combined ADSL Modem/Router won't work because the two components cannot be separated and its "WAN port" connects to a phone line, not an ethernet port.

"So is it best to run the private network or the pub network from the other router? And wired or wirelessly?"

The connection between the two routers needs to be "wired" ethernet, but you can connect your devices to your own router whichever way you want.

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j.wallace1990

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Fantastic, some really useful info here.

I haven't got a seperate package but I've spoken to the landlord and he's agreed to uprage the existing one.

If it's any help, and dosen't get me banned, I'm going with Virgin, and as part of the interenet package they'll supply a hub which acts as both the modem and the router.

So if I just wire up the current router (provided its cable/DSL) to the hub and create a seperate subnet mask. then in theory I have 2 seperate networks on one connection? One open network for the pub and it's punters, and one for me in the flat which is password protected.

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j.wallace1990

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Anyone?

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mgmcc

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"So if I just wire up the current router (provided its cable/DSL) to the hub and create a seperate subnet mask. then in theory I have 2 seperate networks on one connection? One open network for the pub and it's punters, and one for me in the flat which is password protected."

That is essentially correct. You will be running two Subnets (IP address ranges), not Subnet Masks. It is the function of the Subnet Mask, as its name implies, to "mask" the Subnets so that, in your case, the pub's connections cannot access devices in your network.

Password protection only applies to your "wireless" connections, but wired connections can only be by ethernet cable directly to the ports in your router anyway, so they are secure.

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j.wallace1990

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Great, thanks for all the help guys, some really useful info here.

Is creating two subnets a difficult task or something I can just google?

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mgmcc

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"Is creating two subnets a difficult task or something I can just google?"

Read my second posting again, I told you how to create a separate Subnet by ensuring the second router had a different third octet (number) in its IP address. It then allocates addresses in a different range from the main router. That's the separate Subnet.

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