We use cookies to provide you with a better experience. If you continue to use this site, we'll assume you're happy with this. Alternatively, click here to find out how to manage these cookies

hide cookie message
Contact Forum Editor

Send an email to our Forum Editor:


PLEASE NOTE: Your name is used only to let the Forum Editor know who sent the message. Both your name and email address will not be used for any other purpose.

Speakers Corner


It's free to register, to post a question or to start / join a discussion


 

Two Soldiers die while training.


Jock1e
Resolved

Likes # 0

Two soldiers died while training and one in hospital seriously ill.

Click Here

Now we know that the training for those soldiers are severe and only the strongest are picked for special duties. But surely common sense should prevail when training in those humid conditions. I know that there are a few on this forum that have been through that type of training and just wonder what your opinion may be to what went wrong. Obviously something has to be done so that it may never happen again.

Like this post
spuds

Likes # 0

There might be quite a bit of speculation about this event. Its happened before, and it will happen again, that's the nature of the game. While most precautions are at hand, it doesn't take much for things to go very wrong, take hypothermia for one instance. One minute someone can seem fine, the next they are not, but if caught right, they can some become 'fine' again.

Over the past few days there have been a number of meetings and consultations regarding the changes due within the army before 2020, when a majority will be 'reservists on call' instead of 'regulars'. Training was one of the things that is being discussed very heavily due to costs and conditions, and possible employment problems and commitments. Sending some people who are only partly trained for some areas, might be the only option after 2020?.

Like this post
Jock1e

Likes # 0

spuds

I have watched the training they do on TV and quite a few do not finish the course or finish it long after the first one has finished and of course they are normally dropped from that course as unsatisfactory for the unit that they were training for.

Most of the ones I have seen have been in cold windy and wet conditions and not the type of weather that we had at the weekend.

Plus we are talking about members of the territorial army who probably are not as fit as regular soldiers.I am not saying they are not fit just not as fit as regulars.

It is bad enough losing our soldiers in action without loosing them in training exercises which can be avoided.

It has happened before and like you say will probably happen again but I can't remember one that had so many casualties due to the good weather conditions.

Like this post
spuds

Likes # 0

Jock1e

This is possibly the point that I am trying to make. If all goes to plan there will be no Territorial Army (as we have known it) but Reservists with all different types of conditions and terms being applied to the 'new' proposals.

Yesterday on the BBC Freeview Parliament programme, this very subject (about cost saving changes) was being discussed by four top ranking army officer's and a select Committee. Some very concerning facts were being aired, and this was not only concerns by the army officer's challenged with the task of revisions, but the Select Committee as well. Due to circumstances, it will cost more to train 'Reservists' than it did previously the TA. Some people may argue that the TA and Reservists are the same, but apparently after 2020 this will not be the case, the roles with be different?.

With regards to training and possibly the Brecon Beacons, I have witnessed truck loads of soldiers arriving there on exercises, in various conditions. I have even seen people suffer from minor injuries to perhaps Achilles Tendon problems who went that extra mile, because they didn't want to let their mates and themselves down. End result, discharge from the forces for some, possibly with the proviso of "get your body repaired and yourself fit, and if you want apply again, there might be another opening for you" .

Like this post
john bunyan

Likes # 0

It is, indeed, very sad. Many years ago I worked very closely with the unit from which I suspect these guys came. In my own training, we had several fatalities, drowning, heat exhaustion, a demolition problem etc. Yes it was very hot on the day, but so it is in Afghanistan - a possible theatre of operations. The standard required for Reserve and TA SF folk is the same as for regulars. I am sure that they will have had prior medicals and work ups, and clearly this must be thoroughly investigated to double check that all necessary training was given, but the nature of SF work is such that these things will, unfortunately, occasionally happen.

The government has decided to reduce the regular army and increase the reserves, so they must be as fit as their counterparts.

Like this post
Chronos the 2nd

Likes # 0

I think the Brecon Beacons is mainly used for SAS training and I do believe that SAS have a Territorial division. Of course we do not want our soldiers to be killed on training but unfortunately is does occur.

And you certainly cannot only train when weather conditions are not so harsh, these guys operate in the harshest weather conditions so consequently will train in the same.

Most training now in the regular army and my own regiment,the Royal Marines,has got a lot easier for one reason or another, but the SAS still have what some might call a brutal training regime but that is why we have some of the best specials forces in the world.

These tragedies do happen but rarely and until all the facts are known there should be no knee jerk reactions and irrational politicking.

Like this post
john bunyan

Likes # 0

Chronos the 2nd

These days 40% of SF candidates (there is a joint SF selection for all SF units including SBS in the Brecon Beacons) are from the Royal Marines!

The SAS has 3 units - 22 (regular) , 21 and 23 (Reserves) - one South and the other north.

Once a Marine, always a Marine. JB

Like this post
Chronos the 2nd

Likes # 0

Once a Marine, always a Marine.

Absolutely correct.

Like this post
john bunyan

Likes # 0

Chronos the 2nd

I do not wish to digress from this thread, but I thought the RM commando course had not got easier than when I did it many moons ago. The 30 miler, 9miles speed march in 90 mins in full kit etc is still there I believe. OK the have a safety line on the death slide . A few have died doing the speed march and in the past there has been a few who have died on SF selection - including RM - see:

Brecon

Like this post
spuds

Likes # 0

john bunyan

If you check Wikipedia 'United Kingdom Special Forces Selection', there might be some interesting latest information on selection there. It covers a fair range?.

What I found interesting in your Brecon link was the referral to "Tap". I could be wrong, but I thought "Tap" also had another sinister and final meaning. Not being disrespectful to the Brecon link information, but thought it might have been worth a mention?.

Like this post
Aitchbee

Likes # 0

I am digressing a tad; this powerful British Army film was brought to mind:

click here

Like this post

Reply to this topic

This thread has been locked.



IDG UK Sites

Best Black Friday 2014 tech deals UK: Latest bargains on phones, tablets, laptops and more this...

IDG UK Sites

Tech trends 2015: 3D printing grows up

IDG UK Sites

25 iOS apps turn (Red) for World AIDS Day campaign

IDG UK Sites

Black Friday 2014 UK: Apple deals, Amazon deals & other Black Friday tech offers