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Royal Naval Traditional Toast, may be changing


Bing.alau
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I heard on the radio this morning that the toast traditionally made in R.N. messes is to change. It is/was "Here's to our wives and sweethearts. May they never meet". (followed by hearty guffaws of laughter) I think the suggestion was that in future it should be "Here's to the family"... So it looks to me as if the do-gooders are at it again. The excuse is that women now serve on board ship and so the toast is not appropriate. But as long as I can remember there have been women in the shape of the WRENS in the Royal Navy, so why change now?

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lotvic

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fm must have led a sheltered life. Wonder if he's ever listened to a bunch of women out on a Hen Night.

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Aitchbee

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I've oft' wondered if the drinking salute, "Bottoms Up", meant you should raise/tilt your alcoholic / non-alcoholic beverage recepticle 'bottoms' heavenward - or to stand up [communally] in a synchronous manner to drink the aforementioned beverages, [off your 'bottoms' ie. standing up]?

...and does it matter?

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Forum Editor

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Bing.alau

"My attitude towards women is without fault."

That's not for you to judge, is it?

"Your attitude towards my opinion is what I would term "Superior". Both of you seem to think you can do no wrong and say no wrong."

I can only speak for myself Bing.alau, but I think you're getting all upset just because someone questioned your attitude towards women. You don't like it, so you're lashing out. The fact is, I've said nothing whatever to indicate that I do and say no wrong - in your angry state you've imagined that.

My sin in your eyes is that I disagreed with you, and that I pressed my point. You did the same thing, but no doubt you think that's OK - it's just wrong when I do it.

I suggest that you calm down, let the world turn, and reflect on the fact that there's just a chance that your attitude towards women is somewhat outdated. It's not a crime. I get the feeling that you will stick to your opinion that you are without fault, however, so further discussion will be pointless; you've already said that your opinion of women will not change in any way.

What on earth having black friends has to do with attitudes to women is beyond me. It's a total irrelevance.

As for your comment: "FE You can ban me if you like but it will bother me not one iota." Why should I do that? If I banned everyone who lost their temper I would very soon be sitting here alone. I believe that it would bother you a little more than one iota in any case, but it isn't going to happen over this.

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fourm member

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lotvic

'fm must have led a sheltered life.'

I don't quite know what my personal life has to do with anything but playing the man not the ball doesn't progress the debate.

You're missing a very clear distinction. The behaviour of people on a night out, whether stag or hen, is not something officially sanctioned by the Royal Navy.

The first part of this anachronistic toast "Our wives and sweethearts" was officially tolerated as part of the long tradition of having a daily toast at major mess dinners.

I actually don't have a problem with the unofficial coda except that it is meaningless after the new 'our families' toast. I might have gone for 'our families and loved ones' to extend the toast to all friends.

What's not acceptable is the notion that life partners of naval officers can only be 'wives'.

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lotvic

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welcome back fm

“The Royal Navy values the diversity and range of its personnel and it is only right that its traditional toasts should reflect the fact that women have been at sea for over 20 years.” (newsletter.co.uk/news/regional/royal-navy)

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lotvic

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This post is not for Politically Correct sensitive forumites.

9th on the list http://see-the-sea.org/nautical/naut-body.htm#A

"All at sea: Nautical expression to describe the condition of a vessel lost out of site of land. Now the expression or its shortened form "at sea" is used to describe someone who is confused, bewildered and unable to understand"

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fourm member

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lotvic

I don't think I understand the point of your last two posts.

That link from your local paper makes the point that this toast is out dated.

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lotvic

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fm, As it happens, that's not my local paper, but does not surprise me that you assumed (wrongly) yet again. Please don't worry about being unable to understand the point my last two posts - LOL, it's my playful sense of humour.

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fourm member

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lotvic

Apologies. That's my faulty memory. I know there are people here who live in Northern Ireland and I thought you were one of them.

I am 'all at sea' because you seemed to be critical of my position but then you provided a quote supporting it.

Are you suggesting that the 'spokesman for the MoD' has also led a sheltered life?

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lotvic

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fm, My gosh, do I have to explain (twice) how hilarious I found the quote from 'spokesman for the MoD' ?

"..women have been at sea for over 20 years"

'at sea' geddit?

(geddit = exclamation. (slang) an exclamation meaning do you understand it?)

Apologies to Bing.alau for straying from the seriousness of his Thread by trying to inject a little light humour.

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