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Royal Naval Traditional Toast, may be changing


Bing.alau
Resolved

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I heard on the radio this morning that the toast traditionally made in R.N. messes is to change. It is/was "Here's to our wives and sweethearts. May they never meet". (followed by hearty guffaws of laughter) I think the suggestion was that in future it should be "Here's to the family"... So it looks to me as if the do-gooders are at it again. The excuse is that women now serve on board ship and so the toast is not appropriate. But as long as I can remember there have been women in the shape of the WRENS in the Royal Navy, so why change now?

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Woolwell

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Old ex-servicemen and women probably didn't have the best of it if you compare the accommodation and food which was available then and what is provided now. About 280 sailors in a 320 ft long ship doesn't give much room and there was nothing quite like the tin food trays which slopped the custard into the gravy. However we didn't spend so much time actually fighting or in conflict areas with less personnel.

As someone who drew a tot for several years I can safely say that it was out-dated before it was stopped. Being over the drink drive limit at lunch time is not conducive to working with high-tech machinery. However it did make life more tolerable and you could eat just about anything after drinking it.

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Woolwell

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john bunyan - It wasn't the Master-at-Arms but the Bosun's Mate who made those pipes.

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Bing.alau

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JB. Am looking forward to that. Don't take too much notice of fourm member, he takes everything to heart. If we were all like him there would be no humour in this World of ours.

My view of women is probably higher than his, I put them all on pedestals. My wife was highest of them all and yet I could make jokes about women in her presence and get no flak. I now have another wonderful woman looking after me, so I have no doubt which is the dominant sex either.

But I suspect fourm member thinks he is superior to everybody else, male and female.

Stands back and takes coat from coatstand...

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john bunyan

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Bing.alau

I did welcome fourm member back in another thread, as I quite like a bit of disagreement. I am looking forward to his input to Flak999's thread on Syria etc, but there is silence so far...

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Forum Editor

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"Don't take too much notice of fourm member, he takes everything to heart. If we were all like him there would be no humour in this World of ours."

That's the absolutely classic response of someone who doesn't understand that what he and others with the same attitude think is good-natured humour can in fact be pretty offensive - mainly because the humour is at someone else's expense.

Criticism of it is usually rebutted with the worn out old response that 'I admire and respect women' etc., etc.

Such attitudes are patronising at best, and downright offensive at worst, and years ago women had to put up with it - they felt they had no choice. Men justified their attitudes by saying things like 'My wife understands that it's just good-natured banter', but of course they usually didn't bother to ask their wives what they thought.

Society has matured since then, and thankfully today's women don't have to put up with such stuff. There's plenty of room for humour in this world of ours, but not that kind.

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fourm member

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'I put them all on pedestals.'

Well, I'm sure they will all be absolutely delighted by that.

In terms of offensiveness that's right up there alongside 'Some of my best friends are black'.

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morddwyd

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"a Sergeant shouting at recruits in a politically correct manner"

Totally unrepresentative I'm afraid.

When I returned to my training establishment as a supervisor a quarter of a century after entering it as I trainee I was warned not to shout at the trainees or they would, and this is a direct quote "run home to Mum"

However, I can put just as much menace into a conversational "I don't think you're quite up to the mark. You'd better come and see me after the parade" as any guards sergeant major at full volume!

Anyway, I understand it is the Loyal Toast which has to be changed, to "The Sovereign" as any reference to the Queen, or King, is gender specific and politically incorrect

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Bing.alau

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FE and Fourm member. Sorry but I think you are both wrong. My attitude towards women is without fault. Your attitude towards my opinion is what I would term "Superior". Both of you seem to think you can do no wrong and say no wrong. If I upset you both with what I am about to say then so be it. "You seem to be a pair of know it alls".

By the way some of my best friends are black and I am quite proud to be known as their "Honky friend". fourm member you talk a lot of tripe which you seem to think is sense. As clever as you are you have no common sense whatever.

FE You can ban me if you like but it will bother me not one iota. You can rest assured it will not change my opinion of women in any way.

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spuds

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Perhaps we should ban all traditions (think of the cost savings so it could be wasted elsewhere), do away with old folk and make political correctness a condition of living, and by doing so, would solve a number of peoples problems who attempt to justify their own ways or thinkings in life?.

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fourm member

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'My attitude towards women is without fault.'

I'm not at all surprised to find you posting that. You are so completely blind to your sexism that I would not expect you to think any different.

If your attitude towards women were without fault you would not have started a thread bemoaning the ending of a long-outdated practice that is rooted firmly in the past when women were, in every sense, second class citizens.

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