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Cameron caves in


Algerian peter ™

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Conservatives to publish draft bill on an EU referendum tomorrow.

Is it to much pressure from back benches, the threat from UKIP or the old stalwarts of Maggies government expressing the opinion of getting out of Europe.

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Algerian peter ™

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A total of 114 Conservative MPs have backed an amendment to the Queen's Speech "expressing regret" an EU referendum bill was not part of the government's agenda for the year ahead.

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That is a lot more than expected, over one third of Tory MP's. You wonder if a few will wander into the 1922 committee and have a word with the chairman.

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userious?

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"Will there be a run on brown shirts in the shops next?" Would that be something to do with gay marriage?

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spuds

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Back tracking to May 14 2013 at 4.24PM, John Bunyan seems to state "Just listen to the Captains of Industry and the farmers and you will find they are scared stiff of withdrawal".

Perhaps we should add fishermen and a number of other industries who are finding the "scared stiff of withdrawal" doesn't apply to them, because they have been forced to leave the industries they so cared for, and perhaps generations before them.

When some people talk about these things, they seem to assume that the majority want to stay in, yet where do they base their facts from?.

In this particular issue, only a public say or referendum will provide the final outcome.

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john bunyan

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spuds

Clearly there are many , maybe a majority, who want "out" with or without re negotiation. Of course they are entitled to their view. However one point to bear in mind is that if we were to have referendums on other issues then the results would also be difficult. EG if there were a referendum on gay marriage or capital punishment, or withdrawal from NATO, or telling the Scots they are not wanted by those in the South, then we would not have the Parliamentary democracy we have now but a different system - right or wrong - and the decisions would be wrong in the long term in my view as, for example, capital punishment, even if wanted by a majority is simply wrong. The EU debate is a bit similar as (again in my view - but others are entitled to disagree)and should be left to Parliament, maybe on a free vote - as was the Gay Marriage issue.

Bearing in mind that about 50% of our trade is with the EU, there have been no inter- EU wars, we are now quite a small partner but have some influence at least (outside we would have none and at worst would have 20 odd others out to discriminate against us). Do you seriously believe that the likes of Toyota and Honda would invest here if we were outside? Finally, although a while ago, we had a referendum and you can't keep shilly shallying . I suspect we are heading for the EU door, but I am certain the younger folk will live to regret it.

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lotvic

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If/when there is a vote on it, I won't be able to make an informed vote as I haven't got enough knowledge of the system to be able to decide whether it is best for UK and myself to be in or out of EU.

Where can I find a list of pros and cons?

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john bunyan

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lotvic

The " paste " function seems not to be working at the mo. I wanted to paste a link - but here it is manually:

www.europarl.org.uk/ressource/static/files/2012eutrade.pdf

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fourm member

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lotvic

The referendum is supposed to take place after Cameron has negotiated with the rest of the EU to get a 'better deal'.

There's no point in listing pros and cons until that negotiation is completed.

If you think about it, it would be pretty stupid for the government to list all the things that make EU membership a good idea and then go to Brussels and demand changes.

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namtas

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There is a unqualified belief by some that our withdrawal from the EU will suddenly see the draw bridges go up across the English channel and all trading will cease or so seriously damage our economy that the effect will be disastrous. To those people I challenge, show the proof for any of this, or is this in fact another of the many urban myths and scaremongering put about when all else fails in the hope of winning the argument?

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john bunyan

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lotvic

Here is the link - paste now ok!

Pros and cons

namtas Of course all trading will not cease - who said it would? Bear in mind , however that as in the case of Norway, if you want to trade with the EU , you have to accept many of their directives , with no chance of contributing to the decisions. The proof of investment decision? Listen to the investment decision makers of major multi nationals such as Ford, Toyota, Honda and many more. Do we really want to be a "Little UK" looking in to a huge EU, with no influence on them? Of course we must keep to our core beliefs, stay out of the Eurozone , negotiate, and only leave as a last resort. Of course those who favour withdrawal are not all "Little Englanders" but I am as patriotic as anyone and have and would again put my life on the line for this country. My father was killed fighting an EU member , and I would hate in the long term, to have the slightest risk of that type of event.

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