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Richard III's remains: Leicester car park dug up


Jock1e

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It has been reported that the Bones dug up in Leicester car park were that of King Richard the 3rd.

I believe there is a program on tonight at 9Pm all about the dig so that should be interesting.

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Quickbeam

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A question on the DNA science: It's stated that the DNA was traced forewards through the female line to Joy Ibsen, but having no daughters herself, the line could not have been traced past her in the future.

But as Michael Ibsen is positively identified from the final female lineage, can the line now be traced back in the future through this positive male crossover point identified now?

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Quickbeam

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Does the wording of that make sense?

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SillBill

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Quickbeam

It makes perfect sense, what was the question, again?

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Aitchbee

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With the proposed legalization of Gay Marriage, the DNA tracing of future generations, will be a whole new 'ball game', I reckon.

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Jock1e

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Aitchbee

Maybe you could have worded that a bit better.

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csqwared

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I think Aitchbee worded that exactly as he intended. ;-))

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Confab

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I watched the programme last night and I found it very interesting but I think that I must have missed something.

The evidence showed the bones of a man with a spinal condition with very feminine traits whose probable cause of death was several head injuries with at least one of these being a fatal injury. I understand that there was also DNA evidence linking him to a distant relation in Canada

Is there any evidence that Richard III had a sevear spinal condition or that he wasn’t a particularly masculine person? Wouldn’t there have possibly been other relatives of RIII in battle with him on that day who would share DNA similarities with him? I suppose what I’m trying to say is that the person that they found could be any one of the soldiers that were in battle with him on that day.

Also the bit about him being stabbed in the buttock whilst being ridden on horseback was, well, just made up. Sometime I wish these programmes would concentrate on just the facts. My personal conclusion is that he bones might be Richard III but they just as easily might not.

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Forum Editor

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"Is there any evidence that Richard III had a sevear spinal condition or that he wasn’t a particularly masculine person?"

The evidence certainly doesn't show a man who had feminine traits - you can't tell that from a skeleton. He was of slight build, certainly, but that doesn't mean he had feminine traits.

There is evidence that he was born with some kind of spinal defect that affected his ability to walk properly when young, but there's no evidence that he wasn't a particularly masculine person.

Legends and rumours abounded about Richard, but modern historians believe that he was not the monster he is sometimes made out to be.

"Also the bit about him being stabbed in the buttock whilst being ridden on horseback was, well, just made up."

How do you know that? The forensic evidence is that it happened after his death. It certainly happened, and I'm nit sure why you think it was 'made up'.

I suppose what I’m trying to say is that the person that they found could be any one of the soldiers that were in battle with him on that day.

No, that couldn't be the case. The skeleton DNA is a match for the DNA of a man living in Canada who is a direct descendant of Richard III.

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Confab

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The feminine traits bit was picked up from one of the pathologists or archeologists or whatever she was who on examination of the pelvis mentioned the pelvic gap being more like a females pelvis. Also some of the bones were described as being slender – more like a womans than a mans – That’s what I meant by feminine traits.

Of course the bit about him being stabbed whilst being ridden on horseback was pure fiction. Yes he was stabbed after death but that’s all that is known. We were told that valuable armor was often removed after death so if I was given the task of removing a dead mans armor I’d want to be 100% certain that he was dead first. A stab in the backside with something very hard and very sharp would probably convince me. Of course my made up story is just as plausible as theirs but the fact is no-one knows.

I understand that the DNA found “matched” Richard III but what I am saying is that if he went to battle with a relative or two at his side, which probably would have been the case, then couldn’t their DNA also be similar to the Canadian mans DNA? I think that it could.

Also I loved the carbon dating of the bones sequence – The date of the bones didn’t fit with the date they were all “expecting” so they made the assumption that he ate a lot of fish which then miraculously put the carbon dating smack bang in the middle of his reign!

In any event its been decided that the bones are of Richard III so I guess it matters not what I think.

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fourm member

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Confab

You are making me wish I'd watched the programme now.

Maybe I will and then I can comment.

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