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Speakers Corner


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Logans Run nearer than You may think


woodchip

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So much for Bill Gates and the Rich.

Click on Link

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Forum Editor

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"I would expect to find matching curves, offset by 30-40 years, for the fall in infant mortality and a fall in live births."

Which is exactly what happens. As I mentioned earlier, current population growth isn't the figure to look at - it's the number of live births which will ultimately determine population, and that figure is influenced by vaccinations in infancy. More children survive infancy, so less need to be born - educated mothers make choices about that, usually by using contraceptives.

Vaccinate every child in Africa, and within twenty years or so the population growth will slow or plateau out. Another thirty years and it will be falling.

That's what Bill Gates is getting at.

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Forum Editor

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woodchip

"So what you are saying in your last post, is Bill Gates and cronies could be true or could be false, so who do we listen to"

I'm not saying that at all. Take a look at my last post (above this) and you'll see it explained again.

What possible reason would Bill Gates have to lie about his motives; do you honestly think he's going to spend hundreds of millions of dollars on a programme to kill children by vaccination? What would be the point of it?

No, Bill Gates isn't lying - he's trying to do something that will have a huge beneficial effect on developing nations - African nations in particular. These countries just cannot sustain economic growth if their populations keep rising at the current rate. Quite apart from that, there's the huge problem in humanitarian terms of millions of children dying in the first years of their lives because their parents don't have access to the medical vaccines that could save them.

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kad60

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In one respect Bill Gates is right,by providing vaccination for illnesses the need to have more children could be lessened as healthier children survive so the population could fall,nothing sinister in that,after all look what benefit contraception bought,or should that be veiwed in the same light.

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Forum Editor

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"...look what benefit contraception bought,or should that be veiwed in the same light."

The use of contraceptive devices usually goes hand in hand with educating women, which is why education for women is such an important factor in population control.

Educating and emancipating women empowers them to take control of their bodies, and of their lives. They'll want to work, as well as have children, and if the country in which they live has a robust vaccination programme they'll be freed from much of the fear that their children will die in infancy. Fewer babies will be born, and in time the population growth will slow.

Education and vaccination - the two things combined will provide a country with a far better chance of rapid economic growth.

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Quickbeam

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"...look what benefit contraception bought".

Yeah, the potential to liberate females from a life of domestic servitude and uncontrolled births, the freedom to plan a fulfilling working life. But widely abused by way of non-use to plan an idle life of Riley at the expense of the hard working taxpayer.

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spider9

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Quickbeam "...widely abused by way of non-use to plan an idle life of Riley"

Wondered how long it might be before this stereotypical nonsense was regurgitated - simply to attack single mothers.

If you think living through pregnancies and then coping with young kids, on your own, is an 'idle life of Riley' then you should maybe try it!! As often said, if it was men who had to give birth the human race would die out.

Remember also that these kids might just be the ones growing up to be doctors, etc. and you might one day be very grateful for that!

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kad60

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fe,i agree with your point but it seems that in some countries (cultures even) it is the men who need as much education as the women.As regards the "control of their bodies" well even in the 'West',never mind in more consevative countries elsewhere, that is still a problematic point.

quickbeam,you first sentence is spot on,your second disregards the 'other half' in the equation, when men start being men and take responsibility for their actions and start paying for 'their' children maybe the toll on the public purse will lessen.

The welfare state has gone beyond its remit but i will not criticize single woman parenting in isolation from the men who usually abandom them.

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Quickbeam

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spider9 "Wondered how long it might be..." etc.

kad9 "when men start being men and take responsibility for their actions"

You both seem to have missed that I was replying to the statement "...look what benefit contraception bought" in that (in an admittedly cruel tone), the reply is aimed at the female, that has to choose to take the contraception, or choose to not to, with the resultant costs of choosing not to being born by the working population at large.

I apologise profusely at any slur I've cast upon the Essex girl lifestyle set.

When I posted it, there was an interview with David Attenborough still fresh in my my from 5Live the day before (available here if interested) whereby he had linked the surging human population with the demise of global wildlife, and was talking about the human gift of birth control, and how we choose to not to use it for the greater benefit of all on the planet. That whatever we think of the Chinese one child policy, it was something that we will all have to consider sooner or later this century.

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spider9

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*Quickbeam* "..any slur I've cast upon the Essex girl lifestyle set"

Yes, a nice 'apology' but with a sting in the tail!!

Pathetic stereotyping, once more - why not apply for a position on the Daily Mail staff?

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fourm member

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Quickbeam

'he had linked the surging human population'

I'm afraid that David Attenborough is starting to shows the signs of being out of touch that sometimes come with advanced age.

The human population is not 'surging'. It has surged in the past. Rather like turning round a supertanker, it is taking some time to see the effect but it is generally agreed that the population of the world will level off before falling back.

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