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Speakers Corner


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EU In/Out? Is a referendum the best way?


spider9
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I'd always thought we were a Parliamentary Democracy, and, as such, we elect paid representatives to take difficult decisions on our behalf.

Membership of Europe is a difficult , complicated topic, and most people (including myself) would be hard pushed to appreciate all the pros and cons - so the populace will now be bombarded by media propaganda aimed at the lowest common denominator, I suspect.

Loads of 'crazy' EU stories will emerge and be fed to the Great British public, with 'good' EU stories being more difficult to show. Hence the media barons will, once again, get their way and politicians can then 'blame' us if it turns out bad.

Weak leadership I'm afraid.

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spider9

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With all the anti-Europe, little Englander, rhetoric around at the moment, I still think many Scots will be thinking "Should we let the English take us out of Europe, to stand alone, or vote Independence and make our own choice?".

I certainly don't hear the same level of disgruntlement with the EU up here - maybe because they've been under English control for so long and see us English now 'suffering' similar control by the EU (and not liking it??)!!

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Quickbeam

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Do I detect a touch of that Caledonian chip on shoulder blether?

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Flak999

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spider9

If the Scots want to go there own way, then good luck to them. They will find out to their cost that the grass is not greener on the other side!

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spider9

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Flak999 "Scots.......grass is not greener on the other side!"

Yet you are so sure it is 'greener' for the UK if it opts out of Europe??

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spider9

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Quickbeam "...chip on shoulder blether?"

..and becoming part of the fourth Reich would presumably not be 'blether' in your eyes, then?

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Flak999

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spider9

From your opening post and the comments you have made since I assume you are content to not only remain part of the EU but continue down the road to federalism?

Because make no mistake that is where we are headed. If you are content to become just a constituent part of a federal europe then that is of course your choice. Not me however, I will fight that nightmare scenario whilst I still have breath in my body!

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New FM

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spider9

We know that you are a strong supporter of independence and that I am a strong opponent. But that doesn't matter because the Scottish referendum will be decided by those who are currently undecided.

Try and see things from their point of view.

Much has been made of the SNP's claim that an independent Scotland would automatically become a member of the EU. But what if the rest of the UK leaves?

Is Salmond going to say that he was only joking about how important the EU would be to an independent Scotland and if the UK leaves Scotland would leave?

Or is he going to accept that Scotland in and England out means having a very expensive hard border between the two to stop smuggling from outside the EU into the EU?

Note I said EU not Scotland because Brussels would insist on a proper border and might pay some of the costs. But, how independent is that?

Cameron has created uncertainty about what would happen in a independent Scotland. Undecideds hate uncertainty and vote for the status quo.

It seems to me quite probable that some undecideds will think it is best to say 'No' for now and, maybe, think about it again once the EU position is clear.

Given that the polling suggests that almost every undecided has to vote 'Yes' it seems likely that Cameron has done enough to destroy any chance of a vote for Salmond.

There is no doubt that Cameron's move was extremely good politics. Unfortunately, for everyone, good politcs and good governance are two very different things.

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Quickbeam

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spider9 The 4th Reich blether was Flak999's.

It does however demonstrate how unready we all are to fully embrace a federal Europe if the UK and Spain amongst others can't accept unions that have been agreed by earlier generations.

If we don't get a thorough review at the start of this century, we'll not make it to the end.

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Quickbeam

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New FM Are you related to the old fm?

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Quickbeam

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"the Scottish referendum will be decided by those who are currently undecided."

That's a strikingly blunt point, as the EU referendum will also be decided by the same people. Non of our minds that are already made up will count for anything in it!

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