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EU In/Out? Is a referendum the best way?


spider9
Resolved

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I'd always thought we were a Parliamentary Democracy, and, as such, we elect paid representatives to take difficult decisions on our behalf.

Membership of Europe is a difficult , complicated topic, and most people (including myself) would be hard pushed to appreciate all the pros and cons - so the populace will now be bombarded by media propaganda aimed at the lowest common denominator, I suspect.

Loads of 'crazy' EU stories will emerge and be fed to the Great British public, with 'good' EU stories being more difficult to show. Hence the media barons will, once again, get their way and politicians can then 'blame' us if it turns out bad.

Weak leadership I'm afraid.

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Jock1e

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"Oh I'm sure Ed will endorse the referendum idea before the next election"

I am sure Ed shot himself in the foot by declaring that labour was against the vote.

Maybe he was talking for himself he certainly was not talking for me.

I for one would have voted for the PM to stay in power just so that we could have this vote and I am sure that many others would do the same probably leaving the labour vote in a bit of a shambles.

It has carried on far to long and it has to be sorted once and for all.

I think David Cameron has been one of the worst Prime Ministers that I can think of but I do think he is the correct man for the job to sort out our problems with the EU.

I think it is time to get it sorted one way or another so that the problems with it do not arise again and again.

A different Situation with the same sort of effect is Windows8 you like it or you don't like it, I think that is basically the same sort of problem that most of us have with the EU.

W/8 can be improved and so can the EU and lets hope the PM whoever it is sorts it out once and for all.

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Forum Editor

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Perhaps this gives us all some idea of what it must have been like for the people who had the job of making the United states of America work .

Every country in the EU has its own agenda, its own ideas about how things should work, and its own self-interest which comes before the interests of the EU as a whole. The politicians involved have to try to keep their own electorates happy at home whilst juggling with the intricacies of the politics of Europe as an entity.

It's an impossible task, or so it must seem at times, but in the end it must be done if the EU is to survive.

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chub_tor

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"Perhaps this gives us all some idea of what it must have been like for the people who had the job of making the United states of America work ."

Slightly easier for them I think, they had pretty much a common language and a common currency with the exception of Texas and its Mexican influence.

But remember that although there are Federal Regulations that apply to all States each individual State can set its own taxes and has its own local crime laws. What is legal in one State is not necessarily legal in another. Personally I would like to see the European countries run on American State lines because that way we might get the kind of cherry picking flexibility that Cameron is advocating.

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Quickbeam

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fourm member

"If you want a clear demonstration of why...etc"

Well that's certainly a clear demonstration of why some of us think that some of the PCA members think that they clearly know best on any subject!

It clearly demonstrates how subjective any opinion can be.

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spuds

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Looking at yesterday's evening In Parliament programme on Freeview, then the British public have at least 5 more years to consider all the positives or negatives for staying In or Out. That will all depend on what happens in the next five years or so, and whether a referendum is allowed by the powers that be, and will actually go ahead?.

Personally as an old timer, I would hate a Federal Europe, which will eventually be governed by more faceless people dictating how Britain and its people should exist.

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johndrew

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Forum Editor

The discussions at the time of the Ted Heath recommendation were predicated on our ability to trade freely with Europe. There was no mention of total unity or indeed of the many other features since imposed.

As for your lack of optimism in the ability of the UK population to analyse facts, I can only believe you include yourself and all others who have commented in this discussion in your slur. Such a disagreeable statement made by anyone else would have caused you to respond or perhaps delete it.

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TopCat®

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Going back to the '74 referendum the single question asked of us then was: "Do you think the UK should stay in the European Community (Common Market)?"

I voted 'Yes' mainly because I knew that we needed to be in to make our trading position stronger in Europe. What I and millions of others didn't vote for, or were asked, was that we would meakly hand over important 'powers' to the EU that should have stayed in our own parliament.

As for the coming referendum, well I am not yet convinced to say yes at this time. Maybe between now and the new referendum day things may have changed for the better for Great Britain and I will decide then. TC.

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john bunyan

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It is interesting that "The EU" , whoever they are, are seeking "ever closer union", yet many parts of the EU are seeking devolution (Scotland, maybe Wales,Catalonia, The Basques etc) This "Balkanisation" of Europe could rebound on the protagonists, giving more power to Brussels.

I think that is why the "EU" seem to be a bit wobbly on the Scottish devolution issue ie they do not wish to be seen to encourage Catalonia etc to follow suit.

I wish , somehow, that a new "Europe" could emerge along the lines of the USA or Germany with its Lander system where the powers of the central HQ are strictly limited. A truly Federal Europe as envisaged by some is unlikely to succeed in the near future - just look at foreign policy alone - who would have agreed, for example, to the re taking of the Falklands under such a system?

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Quickbeam

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It helps to listen to Cameron's full unedited speech (about 40 minutes worth) rather than the news bulletin snippets that are broadcast to suit whichever bias is being touted. It's not as scarey as some have suggested, it's more of a public EU dressing down over all the fears we have of the direction in which it's steering.

Interestingly, he refers to 'wanting what we thought we were getting when we joined', despite what some on this forum insist was meant to the contrary in '75. And he certainly does't speak of our ability to make the decision in a condescending manner.

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Quickbeam

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I rather thought that hat fits you quite often fm.

I'm pretty easy going and certainly don't have a professional journalist's background, but when you decide that your clearly right, you do tend to deride some replies pretty roughly.

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