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EU In/Out? Is a referendum the best way?


spider9
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I'd always thought we were a Parliamentary Democracy, and, as such, we elect paid representatives to take difficult decisions on our behalf.

Membership of Europe is a difficult , complicated topic, and most people (including myself) would be hard pushed to appreciate all the pros and cons - so the populace will now be bombarded by media propaganda aimed at the lowest common denominator, I suspect.

Loads of 'crazy' EU stories will emerge and be fed to the Great British public, with 'good' EU stories being more difficult to show. Hence the media barons will, once again, get their way and politicians can then 'blame' us if it turns out bad.

Weak leadership I'm afraid.

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spider9

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Quickbeam "..how his mention of fools should be interpreted"

At no stage was I saying you were a fool - simply that it is likely that you won't appreciate all the in/out possibilities (particularly when failing to understand even that original Scots/EU matter- which was pretty obvious, after all!).

I would be the first to admit my own lack of full knowledge in this question of in/out, and I truly believe I am in the majority in that!

My worry tends to be that allowing all the populace to vote on such a complex matter might just be catastrophic. When I need an operation, or medicine, I tend to feel safer if I'm being looked after by someone who has studied the subject in depth and, hopefully can make a good judgement call on my behalf - in just the same way my elected representatives should now do in this case.

(Note 'elected representatives', not 'country house 'betters' - although you are presumably just having a dig at the present cabinet millionaires?).

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john bunyan

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spider9

I tend to agree with you, even though at the moment I would vote to stay in. If there were a referendum on Gay Marriage or capital punishment, I have a nasty feeling that the vote would not be acceptable. The trouble is that the media seem intent on an in/out vote, and Cameron hopes he has shot the UKIP fox by promising one. I hope that , given time, and if there is a referendum that common sense prevails. The Scottish one worries me, in particular, should the split take place, on military / intelligence issues. Would the Scots have their own MI5, MI6, and all armed services as a separate entity? If all existing units moved South, I imagine the employment situation would be difficult. However this thread is about the EU. I just wish the matter could now be put on hold until nearer the proposed date.

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spuds

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Again I was watching the Parliament program on Freeview yesterday evening, and this EU or Common Market subject was being discussed in the House of Lords. Taking the general opinion, it would seem that there was a majority favour that Cameron as to exert some pressure of possible 'better terms' for the UK for us to remain in the EU. Present terms are not acceptable!.

If we were to leave the EU, then those giving their views in the Lords saw no wrong in this, because our trading positions world-wide were already very strong, and always have been.

Taking that these suggestions and statements were being stated by people who where more likely around at the time of the original 'Common Market' discussions and how the 'Common Market' was formed, then perhaps listening to those 'wiser heads' is worth considering, instead of saying that we have to accept being in the EU as the only way forward?.

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Forum Editor

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We had a referendum (in 1974) to decide whether or not to stay in what was then called the EEC, and we voted, by a significant majority, to stay in.

I suppose it's only fair that we should again be offered the opportunity to vote on whether we should now come out.

Personally I think it's madness to contemplate withdrawing.

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Quickbeam

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I've become an OUTer over the last decade.

The simple reasoning being that we can't be any worse off on our own than shovelling money into the EU money waste disposal furnace.

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Forum Editor

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Quickbeam

"we can't be any worse off on our own than shovelling money into the EU money waste disposal furnace."

Really?

Our relationship with America would be seriously damaged for one thing, and -regardless of what the anti-american brigade might say - we need that relationship to be a good one.

The idea that we could be a successful standalone trading nation, and maintain our status as one of the world's wealthiest countries if we ceased membership of the EU is seriously flawed.

No doubt we'll have endless discussions about it all as time goes on.

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sunnystaines

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when we voted last time it was all to do with trade, similar to the old EFTA. But things have got out of control and politics and laws etc have all crept in as well as it being a cash cow wasting billions.

Why can the UK not have a vote with 6 months re in or out why have we been fobbed off with after the next election.

I do think the EU has lost its original purpose. The old EFTA yes EU no.

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nickf

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I agree with Sunnystaines (sic) , THE EU has become a political beast , rather than the trade focused organisation we signed up for . WE put in far more than we get out . If we don't pull out soon , we will be too far down the road of economic and political union to be able to pull out , and I for one do not want to live in the Empire of Europe .

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Mr Mistoffelees

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I agree with the FE, leaving the EU would be economic suicide.

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morddwyd

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Interesting times.

What if the UK votes to leave the EU, but Scotland votes to leave the UK and gets EU membership?

How many Chief Executives are thinking of asking their research departments for a feasibility study of migrating from England to Scotland?

How many "Yes" campaigners are even now looking to see how to turn the prospect to advantage?

Generally speaking, and I have no evidence of this, just an opinion, politicians up here seem to be more on the side of the "Auld Alliance" than the "Auld Enemy".

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