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EU In/Out? Is a referendum the best way?


spider9
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I'd always thought we were a Parliamentary Democracy, and, as such, we elect paid representatives to take difficult decisions on our behalf.

Membership of Europe is a difficult , complicated topic, and most people (including myself) would be hard pushed to appreciate all the pros and cons - so the populace will now be bombarded by media propaganda aimed at the lowest common denominator, I suspect.

Loads of 'crazy' EU stories will emerge and be fed to the Great British public, with 'good' EU stories being more difficult to show. Hence the media barons will, once again, get their way and politicians can then 'blame' us if it turns out bad.

Weak leadership I'm afraid.

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Quickbeam

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spider9

Do be aware that your bold accusatory you encompasses the opinions several million UK voters. Even the FE seemed to be thrown onto his defensive back foot earlier to distance himself from the perception of how his mention of fools should be interpreted.

I do wonder that if you really believe that all decisions should be made on behalf of us plebs, that all political decisions should return back to behind the closed doors of country houses by our betters that must surly know better...?

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hssutton

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FE

I hope that remark doesn't refer to anything I've written, because I have not said any such thing. Those who voted in the 1975 referendum could only vote on the question they were asked, which was "Do you think the UK should stay in the European Community (Common Market)?"

Yes it does refer to something you've written

Nobody but a fool would have doubted then that the ultimate progression would be from a trading alliance to a political one - it was inevitable, and was mentioned repeatedly in the media at the time, as well as in parliament.

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Quickbeam

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Light the blue touch paper and...

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Forum Editor

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hssutton

Yes, I know that, I was just giving you the opportunity to realise that what you said was a little off the mark. I recommend that you read my earlier post on the subject. I had earlier said that I was not going to engage further in this discussion, and here I am, engaging again. It's going nowhere, this minute dissection of who said what. The referendum - if there is one - will not take place until 2016. We'll all be churning the whole subject over and over again before then, of that I'm quite sure.

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spider9

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Quickbeam "..how his mention of fools should be interpreted"

At no stage was I saying you were a fool - simply that it is likely that you won't appreciate all the in/out possibilities (particularly when failing to understand even that original Scots/EU matter- which was pretty obvious, after all!).

I would be the first to admit my own lack of full knowledge in this question of in/out, and I truly believe I am in the majority in that!

My worry tends to be that allowing all the populace to vote on such a complex matter might just be catastrophic. When I need an operation, or medicine, I tend to feel safer if I'm being looked after by someone who has studied the subject in depth and, hopefully can make a good judgement call on my behalf - in just the same way my elected representatives should now do in this case.

(Note 'elected representatives', not 'country house 'betters' - although you are presumably just having a dig at the present cabinet millionaires?).

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john bunyan

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spider9

I tend to agree with you, even though at the moment I would vote to stay in. If there were a referendum on Gay Marriage or capital punishment, I have a nasty feeling that the vote would not be acceptable. The trouble is that the media seem intent on an in/out vote, and Cameron hopes he has shot the UKIP fox by promising one. I hope that , given time, and if there is a referendum that common sense prevails. The Scottish one worries me, in particular, should the split take place, on military / intelligence issues. Would the Scots have their own MI5, MI6, and all armed services as a separate entity? If all existing units moved South, I imagine the employment situation would be difficult. However this thread is about the EU. I just wish the matter could now be put on hold until nearer the proposed date.

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spuds

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Again I was watching the Parliament program on Freeview yesterday evening, and this EU or Common Market subject was being discussed in the House of Lords. Taking the general opinion, it would seem that there was a majority favour that Cameron as to exert some pressure of possible 'better terms' for the UK for us to remain in the EU. Present terms are not acceptable!.

If we were to leave the EU, then those giving their views in the Lords saw no wrong in this, because our trading positions world-wide were already very strong, and always have been.

Taking that these suggestions and statements were being stated by people who where more likely around at the time of the original 'Common Market' discussions and how the 'Common Market' was formed, then perhaps listening to those 'wiser heads' is worth considering, instead of saying that we have to accept being in the EU as the only way forward?.

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Forum Editor

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We had a referendum (in 1974) to decide whether or not to stay in what was then called the EEC, and we voted, by a significant majority, to stay in.

I suppose it's only fair that we should again be offered the opportunity to vote on whether we should now come out.

Personally I think it's madness to contemplate withdrawing.

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Quickbeam

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I've become an OUTer over the last decade.

The simple reasoning being that we can't be any worse off on our own than shovelling money into the EU money waste disposal furnace.

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Forum Editor

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Quickbeam

"we can't be any worse off on our own than shovelling money into the EU money waste disposal furnace."

Really?

Our relationship with America would be seriously damaged for one thing, and -regardless of what the anti-american brigade might say - we need that relationship to be a good one.

The idea that we could be a successful standalone trading nation, and maintain our status as one of the world's wealthiest countries if we ceased membership of the EU is seriously flawed.

No doubt we'll have endless discussions about it all as time goes on.

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