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EU In/Out? Is a referendum the best way?

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spider9
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Posted January 23, 2013 at 9:30AM

I'd always thought we were a Parliamentary Democracy, and, as such, we elect paid representatives to take difficult decisions on our behalf.

Membership of Europe is a difficult , complicated topic, and most people (including myself) would be hard pushed to appreciate all the pros and cons - so the populace will now be bombarded by media propaganda aimed at the lowest common denominator, I suspect.

Loads of 'crazy' EU stories will emerge and be fed to the Great British public, with 'good' EU stories being more difficult to show. Hence the media barons will, once again, get their way and politicians can then 'blame' us if it turns out bad.

Weak leadership I'm afraid.

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Woolwell

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Posted January 30, 2013 at 4:22PM

fourm member - India is the second biggest investor in UK and we have significant investments in India and there are bilateral trade agreements. You can have agreements with nations without joining a political federation.

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Flak999

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Posted January 30, 2013 at 4:23PM

fourm member

I recognise that nothing I say will convince someone whose views are deeply entrenched and based on an unwillingness to examine evidence rather than rely on prejudice.

Ok, I'll go with that, so now show me the evidence! I am open to persuasion.

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Aitchbee

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Posted January 30, 2013 at 6:11PM

Latest betting on EU Membership Referendum:-

Result of EU Membership Referendum:-

In favour of staying in EU ...4/6

In favour of leaving EU ... 11/10

*Applies to the result of the first nationwide UK referendum on leaving the EU entirely. Must take place by the end of May 2020. [Bets void after 24th March 2013.]*

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spuds

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Posted January 30, 2013 at 6:15PM

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fourm member

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Posted January 30, 2013 at 7:13PM

Woolwell

Thank you for demonstrating my point that some people will cling to their beliefs no matter what is put before them.

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fourm member

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Posted January 30, 2013 at 7:21PM

Flak999

I'm actually not interested in trying to persuade anyone to change their views.

What I've been trying to do is to get people to accept that political union has always been at the centre of our relationship with Europe. It is the reason we didn't join and make the original 6 become 7 as long ago as 1957 and people talked about it all the way from then until the 1975 referendum.

Saying 'we thought it was just about a common market' is like saying the reason we don't have capital punishment is because no-one ever talks about it. Or, 'Isn't it a shame there isn't a political party campaigning to end immigration?'

The only rationale I can see for continuing with the belief that unity was never mentioned is that people opposed to the EU fear they are in the minority and try and comfort themselves with the fiction that the 1975 referendum result was a fudge because there wasn't a full debate.

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Aitchbee

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Posted January 30, 2013 at 7:29PM

fourm member - once again you demonstrate your talent for twisting around what other people say - It's so obvious.

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namtas

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Posted January 30, 2013 at 7:33PM

Just how do you think there can be 'mutually beneficial trading arrangements' if the UK is outside the EU?

fourm member

Does anyone really believe that Mercedes would suddenly decide to stop selling cars to the UK? or that Total would suddenly close down all of its forecourts and oil distribution. The fact is we are a valuable trading partner with the EU and we would remain so in or out.

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morddwyd

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Posted January 30, 2013 at 7:55PM

"Does anyone really believe that Mercedes would suddenly decide to stop selling cars to the UK?"

And does anybody really believe that the import duty which would be levied on Mercedes cars would make them more available in the UK?

And does anybody really believe, to quote just one example, that Dundee's biggest employer, Michelin, would continue to operate, paying an EU import levy in order to sell tyres to Citroen/Peugeot?

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fourm member

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Posted January 30, 2013 at 7:59PM

namtas

'The fact is we are a valuable trading partner with the EU and we would remain so in or out.'

But that is the bet isn't it?

We might stay valuable but can anyone say with certainty 'as valuable'.

It's not about Mercedes selling cars here, anyway. It's about the German government wanting a new pension fund manager and, at present, having to ask UK firms to tender.

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