Quickbeam

'cannot see for the dead wood before their eyes?'

At the risk of making this 'my dad's bigger than your dad', I'd have to say that there are plenty on the 'out' side who are blinkered to the truth. See spuds still claiming no-one mentioned a federal Europe when we joined as just one example.

Or Flakk999 talking about 'we have stood as our own country making our own laws for the best part of a thousand years'.

That ignores the fact that, in 1688, a foreign prince invaded this country and imposed his view of what the law sgould be.

But, of course, that's the one point that no-one wants to talk about. Being in the EU is not about a trading partnership and it is not about building a superstate with centralised control. It's about Europeans not killing each other and invading each other's territory.

After the dreadful events in former Yugoslavia it was essential to ensure that other former communist states did not collapse into anarchy. The expansion of the EU in 2004 was about stabilising the eastern edge of Europe.

fourm member

"see spuds still claiming no-one mentioning a federal Europe when we joined a just one example"

It wasn't 'claiming' but a fact that the 'for' politicians at the time, and that included Ted Heath, the Common Market was going to be a simpler trading exercise between European or more so Continental countries, that were considered suitable to join by their contributions. There was no mention, or at least if there was, it was kept very quiet, that this would eventually lead to One State, One Nation or more probable one 'united' Federal State being governed by one.

Remember that it wasn't all that long that WW1 and WW2 had not long finished, and this was still very deep in the hearts and minds of those living in the UK or Great Britain. I am not sure about the other countries or peoples on the borders of Europe or further a field and what they were thinking or hoping. I do believe that some of the past eastern bloc or communist countries were not even considered, because at that time, they had very little to offer, and some still do not to this day. And on that basis alone, it was not imagined that 'we' as a UK nation was preparing to give the UK away, as the terms and conditions changed, and by those who were not elected by the mainstay of public to make those decisions on the public's behalf.

This thread is becoming rather 'political correct', because as already apparently being possibly stated or suggested by other members, 'its like not seeing the woods for the trees', and perhaps some people do not have memories that stretch far back to the original Common Market idea being proposed or considered?.

spuds - We were misled by the media as much as the politicians in the early 1970's. With hindsight it is obvious that those in power knew that we were entering more than a Common Market (even the referendum included the words Common Market). The rest is history.