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EU In/Out? Is a referendum the best way?


spider9
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I'd always thought we were a Parliamentary Democracy, and, as such, we elect paid representatives to take difficult decisions on our behalf.

Membership of Europe is a difficult , complicated topic, and most people (including myself) would be hard pushed to appreciate all the pros and cons - so the populace will now be bombarded by media propaganda aimed at the lowest common denominator, I suspect.

Loads of 'crazy' EU stories will emerge and be fed to the Great British public, with 'good' EU stories being more difficult to show. Hence the media barons will, once again, get their way and politicians can then 'blame' us if it turns out bad.

Weak leadership I'm afraid.

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Flak999

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Forum Editor

And what if the "groundswell of public opinion" is that we should remain a member state of the EU - what then for Britain?

If that set of circumstances should arise then of course we will all have to live with the consequences of that decision. But I feel very confident that we will get the decision needed to save ourselves from EU federalism.

I may be living in the past, but I'm looking to the future. A future outside of the EU, I shall campaign for it in my own small way and I know that many, many others will do the same. But if the worst does happen and we vote to remain I will be able to console myself with the thought that at least I did not walk willingly into the abyss!

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Flak999

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spider9

Maybe you should say if? It is depending on so many things (mainly if the Tory election win happens, of course).

On that score I think Cameron has played a bit of a blinder! As things stand his is the only party offering the electorate a vote on continued EU membership, all of the UKIP supporters and anti EU voters will vote for him because of the referendum. This will ensure a Conservative victory and secure the referendum.

As I said before, once we have that everything else will naturally follow!

I look forward with relish to the battle ahead.

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fourm member

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Flak999

That Telegraph piece made me laugh so much I couldn't finish it.

After complaining about being ignored by the Muslims she meets she talks about living in London for 25 years ago and keeping 'the habit of chatting to shopkeepers and neighbours, despite it not being the done thing in metropolitan life'.

So, when she first came to London people ignored her and didn't engage in chit chat and now it is the same. Except, of course, for the change in colour. I find it is better to laugh at racists.

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fourm member

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spider9

Seems your attempt to explain the hurdles to be crossed before a referendum has fallen on deaf ears.

Says it all really.

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Flak999

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fourm member

You don't live in London do you!

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Forum Editor

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You don't live in London do you!

i do, and have done so for the past 40 years. When I first came to live and work in London it struck me as a big, bustling, impersonal kind of place; a huge city which swallowed you up, and - if you wanted it that way - left you to live a fairly anonymous existence. It was then a multi-racial city, as it has been for centuries, and racism was widespread.

Large numbers of Caribbean immigrants had entered the country in the 1950's,and that continued into the '60s - these people made a big contribution to the rebuilding of the post-war London economy.

Nothing much has changed, to be honest, except the immigrant population has increased. London, like New York, is a multi-racial city and no mistake. That it (largely) works is a tribute to the honest, hard-working people of all nationalities who just get on with the process of making a living. In a shrinking world we had all better get used to the fact that there will be immigration and all that goes with it.

Bleating on about the good old days makes me laugh - they were never as good as some people like to think. Give me modern multiculturalism any day. I love the feeling of vibrancy that London has, and I certainly wouldn't want to see it change.

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Flak999

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Forum Editor

Although we both live in London FE we live on the outskirts, leafy Elstree and Radlet along with Ruislip and Harefield don't I think have the same, shall we say "problems" of the inner city?

Would you choose to send your children to school where English is a second language and 99% of the class where non white?

Because I wouldn't!

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Forum Editor

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Flak999

I have lived in various parts of London, the inner city included, and once had an office in the heart of Brixton. The people there were as friendly as in any leafy suburb.

My children went to a school with large numbers of Japanese children, children from the Philipines, Hong Kong, and Nigeria. At university they made many friends, including students from overseas, and some of those friendships have lasted into adulthood.

Life is what you make it,and saying that you wouldn't want to send your child to a school that had lots of children from ethnic minorities means that you're making decisions for them that will simply perpetuate racism in society. You're an anachronism, but fortunately your views are held by a minority. A vociferous minority, but that doesn't matter - the minority will not prevail in the long term.

Anyway, what have non-white children got to do with an EU referendum?

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fourm member

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Flak999

For what it's worth I was born in the East End and, apart from 8 years in Zambia lived and worked in London or the suburbs until I was 51. My grandfather was an Irish 'navvie' so I expect he was viewed with suspicion by the 'natives' when he arrived in London.

But that is irrelevant to being able to see the foolishness in that woman saying that, when she moved from Staffordshire she found London to be an unfriendly place and today it is an unfriendly place.

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Flak999

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Forum Editor

I may be an anachronism, but I am not alone in my views. Whether I'm in the minority is debatable, I guess we shall have to wait until we get to vote to see how the land lies.

fourm member

I respect your opinion, but you must understand that life for some of the older indigenous population in some areas has changed beyond all recognition. They don't like it and feel threatened by it. whether that is a real or imagined fear, it is a fear nonetheless.

They feel ignored and marginalised and yes, some feel like foreigners in their own country. It is easy for you and people like you to call them racists. It is the "get out of jail free" card that all Guardianistas use to stifle any debate on immigration.

But I digress, let us keep the thread on track. One of the main reasons I wish to leave the EU is to wrest control of our own borders back from Brussels.

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