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EU In/Out? Is a referendum the best way?


spider9
Resolved

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I'd always thought we were a Parliamentary Democracy, and, as such, we elect paid representatives to take difficult decisions on our behalf.

Membership of Europe is a difficult , complicated topic, and most people (including myself) would be hard pushed to appreciate all the pros and cons - so the populace will now be bombarded by media propaganda aimed at the lowest common denominator, I suspect.

Loads of 'crazy' EU stories will emerge and be fed to the Great British public, with 'good' EU stories being more difficult to show. Hence the media barons will, once again, get their way and politicians can then 'blame' us if it turns out bad.

Weak leadership I'm afraid.

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Flak999

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fourm member

Another example of blaming the EU for something it didn't do.

But it did didn't it? One of the main concepts of the EU is the free movement of peoples to live and work within it's borders without let or hindrance. The fact that a state can take advantage of transitional arrangements to limit the surge of incomers on a temporary basis isn't much use at all.

In January next year we can no doubt expect another inflow from Romania and Bulgaria where the per capita income is 1/5 that of the UK. I don't object to people coming here to live and work if they are going to be a net contributor to the country and have the skills we need, what I do object to vehemently is the benefit tourism which sees unskilled unemployable citizens of other countries coming here to take advantage of our benefit system!

Being once again in control of our own borders, on it's own is a good enough reason for me to want to bid the failed experiment of the EU Adieu!

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morddwyd

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"I just don't want to be part of the fourth Reich that's all!"

I refer you to my January 23rd,8.39pm post.

You are too late.

"what I do object to vehemently is the benefit tourism which sees unskilled unemployable citizens of other countries coming here to take advantage of our benefit system!"

But that is not the fault of the EU, but entirely down to successive British governments, with their policy of handouts for all, regardless of merit or need.

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spuds

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Like others, I am not sure how I voted, if at all for the Common Market. But I do recall thinking that the overseas countries that had supported the UK through thick and thin, might not receive their just rewards in the foreseeable future.

Then hearing of corruption and accounts not being signed off, made me more convinced that we in the UK, were and are being given short measure.

When it was decided 'that it was quite right' that livestock could be transported between an whole range of countries, gaining a subsidy at each border, then those same livestock being transported back to the country of origin, so it became a case of the livestock involved was worth more in subsidies than in carcass value, something was becoming seriously wrong. The other point was the welfare issues of transportation, which was a big issue, and perhaps still so today. The same can perhaps be applied to fish quotas, when quite usable fish is thrown overboard, because the quota system was never favour of providing a secure and sure solution.

The negatives and positives have been far apart at times, and its only with age, that this is coming more evident. If a referendum does come into being, then I would still be very highly sceptical as to the wording for any vote, because from past experiences, what is supposedly intended or faithfully promised is not always the case?.

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john bunyan

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Livestock are , in my view, still mistreated in the UK. Kosher and Halal slaughter should be banned in this country. Please reply only if you have witnessed slaughter of this type. I think live transport across borders for slaughter purposes should also be banned. If you want a bit of EU harmonisation, how about banning bull fighting throughout the EU? All the more reasons for a "USA" type EU where member states have different laws within reason, but no trade barriers.

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Flak999

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morddwyd

You are too late.

Unlike you I am not prepared to give up, I don't think it's to late. We have moved a long way towards the giving up of our national autonomy, but I believe we still have a chance to redress the balance.

I believe we owe it to all of those who have gone before us, those who have given their lives in defence of our freedom, to not let our country and our way of life be subsumed into a homogenised emasculated european super state dictated to by unelected officials who dance to the tune of the latest incumbent of the Reichstag!

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spider9

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With all the anti-Europe, little Englander, rhetoric around at the moment, I still think many Scots will be thinking "Should we let the English take us out of Europe, to stand alone, or vote Independence and make our own choice?".

I certainly don't hear the same level of disgruntlement with the EU up here - maybe because they've been under English control for so long and see us English now 'suffering' similar control by the EU (and not liking it??)!!

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Quickbeam

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Do I detect a touch of that Caledonian chip on shoulder blether?

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Flak999

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spider9

If the Scots want to go there own way, then good luck to them. They will find out to their cost that the grass is not greener on the other side!

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spider9

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Flak999 "Scots.......grass is not greener on the other side!"

Yet you are so sure it is 'greener' for the UK if it opts out of Europe??

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spider9

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Quickbeam "...chip on shoulder blether?"

..and becoming part of the fourth Reich would presumably not be 'blether' in your eyes, then?

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