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EU In/Out? Is a referendum the best way?


spider9
Resolved

Likes # 0

I'd always thought we were a Parliamentary Democracy, and, as such, we elect paid representatives to take difficult decisions on our behalf.

Membership of Europe is a difficult , complicated topic, and most people (including myself) would be hard pushed to appreciate all the pros and cons - so the populace will now be bombarded by media propaganda aimed at the lowest common denominator, I suspect.

Loads of 'crazy' EU stories will emerge and be fed to the Great British public, with 'good' EU stories being more difficult to show. Hence the media barons will, once again, get their way and politicians can then 'blame' us if it turns out bad.

Weak leadership I'm afraid.

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johndrew

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Forum Editor

The discussions at the time of the Ted Heath recommendation were predicated on our ability to trade freely with Europe. There was no mention of total unity or indeed of the many other features since imposed.

As for your lack of optimism in the ability of the UK population to analyse facts, I can only believe you include yourself and all others who have commented in this discussion in your slur. Such a disagreeable statement made by anyone else would have caused you to respond or perhaps delete it.

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TopCat®

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Going back to the '74 referendum the single question asked of us then was: "Do you think the UK should stay in the European Community (Common Market)?"

I voted 'Yes' mainly because I knew that we needed to be in to make our trading position stronger in Europe. What I and millions of others didn't vote for, or were asked, was that we would meakly hand over important 'powers' to the EU that should have stayed in our own parliament.

As for the coming referendum, well I am not yet convinced to say yes at this time. Maybe between now and the new referendum day things may have changed for the better for Great Britain and I will decide then. TC.

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john bunyan

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It is interesting that "The EU" , whoever they are, are seeking "ever closer union", yet many parts of the EU are seeking devolution (Scotland, maybe Wales,Catalonia, The Basques etc) This "Balkanisation" of Europe could rebound on the protagonists, giving more power to Brussels.

I think that is why the "EU" seem to be a bit wobbly on the Scottish devolution issue ie they do not wish to be seen to encourage Catalonia etc to follow suit.

I wish , somehow, that a new "Europe" could emerge along the lines of the USA or Germany with its Lander system where the powers of the central HQ are strictly limited. A truly Federal Europe as envisaged by some is unlikely to succeed in the near future - just look at foreign policy alone - who would have agreed, for example, to the re taking of the Falklands under such a system?

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Quickbeam

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It helps to listen to Cameron's full unedited speech (about 40 minutes worth) rather than the news bulletin snippets that are broadcast to suit whichever bias is being touted. It's not as scarey as some have suggested, it's more of a public EU dressing down over all the fears we have of the direction in which it's steering.

Interestingly, he refers to 'wanting what we thought we were getting when we joined', despite what some on this forum insist was meant to the contrary in '75. And he certainly does't speak of our ability to make the decision in a condescending manner.

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Quickbeam

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I rather thought that hat fits you quite often fm.

I'm pretty easy going and certainly don't have a professional journalist's background, but when you decide that your clearly right, you do tend to deride some replies pretty roughly.

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johndrew

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The forum description says something about 'lively'.

But not arrogantly or rude.

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Bing.alau

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That referendum was fixed so that it didn't really matter what anybody really wanted, there was no way of stating it.

As an ordinary sort of bloke I understood it was for inclusion in the common market. So I voted "Yes". If it had been for a fully fledged European United State or States I would have said "Yes" at that time too. But it wasn't.

After watching the way this country has been treated by France, Germany and others, if we get a chance to opt out now by voting then I would be all for coming out. But there is no way this government is going to allow us to have that type of vote. Oh, yes! we may get the semi promised vote, if Cameron and his gang get in again. But it will be so worded that most of us will not understand it, and if we think we do understand it we will be wrong. We will end up voting for the opposite of what we really want.

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kad60

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I do not like homogenized milk and i do not think an homogenized Europe can work free from the power of national sentiment and the strength of the cultures underpinning that sentiment, these serve to undermine the federal european project.

In the USA a diverse people forged a new identity in a new world from scratch,the old world is still behoven to a tradition forged through centuries of conflict and relative peace,i may be wrong and probably will be but the time for this brave new Europe is,probably, not now.

Maybe like the USA it will take longer than we or the EU understand.

It is a condition of the future that change is inevitable,maybe if it was managed better it would be less problematical.

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Jock1e

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Just trying to think back to the first vote for the EU and I cannot remember if it was just a vote for the EU or was it bundled with the Local election votes.

Anybody actually know what % of people voted was it low High I just cannot remember if I actually voted or not and if I did not I can only assume it came bundled with Local Election votes.

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Jock1e

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Should have searched first. 67.2% in favour, with a turnout of 64.0%.

Edward Heath did not hold a referendum before the United Kingdom joined.

I suppose as we had already joined the EU without a referendum I suppose the yes vote was probably as we are already in we are as well staying in.

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