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EU In/Out? Is a referendum the best way?


spider9
Resolved

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I'd always thought we were a Parliamentary Democracy, and, as such, we elect paid representatives to take difficult decisions on our behalf.

Membership of Europe is a difficult , complicated topic, and most people (including myself) would be hard pushed to appreciate all the pros and cons - so the populace will now be bombarded by media propaganda aimed at the lowest common denominator, I suspect.

Loads of 'crazy' EU stories will emerge and be fed to the Great British public, with 'good' EU stories being more difficult to show. Hence the media barons will, once again, get their way and politicians can then 'blame' us if it turns out bad.

Weak leadership I'm afraid.

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john bunyan

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It is interesting that "The EU" , whoever they are, are seeking "ever closer union", yet many parts of the EU are seeking devolution (Scotland, maybe Wales,Catalonia, The Basques etc) This "Balkanisation" of Europe could rebound on the protagonists, giving more power to Brussels.

I think that is why the "EU" seem to be a bit wobbly on the Scottish devolution issue ie they do not wish to be seen to encourage Catalonia etc to follow suit.

I wish , somehow, that a new "Europe" could emerge along the lines of the USA or Germany with its Lander system where the powers of the central HQ are strictly limited. A truly Federal Europe as envisaged by some is unlikely to succeed in the near future - just look at foreign policy alone - who would have agreed, for example, to the re taking of the Falklands under such a system?

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Quickbeam

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It helps to listen to Cameron's full unedited speech (about 40 minutes worth) rather than the news bulletin snippets that are broadcast to suit whichever bias is being touted. It's not as scarey as some have suggested, it's more of a public EU dressing down over all the fears we have of the direction in which it's steering.

Interestingly, he refers to 'wanting what we thought we were getting when we joined', despite what some on this forum insist was meant to the contrary in '75. And he certainly does't speak of our ability to make the decision in a condescending manner.

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Quickbeam

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I rather thought that hat fits you quite often fm.

I'm pretty easy going and certainly don't have a professional journalist's background, but when you decide that your clearly right, you do tend to deride some replies pretty roughly.

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johndrew

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The forum description says something about 'lively'.

But not arrogantly or rude.

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Bing.alau

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That referendum was fixed so that it didn't really matter what anybody really wanted, there was no way of stating it.

As an ordinary sort of bloke I understood it was for inclusion in the common market. So I voted "Yes". If it had been for a fully fledged European United State or States I would have said "Yes" at that time too. But it wasn't.

After watching the way this country has been treated by France, Germany and others, if we get a chance to opt out now by voting then I would be all for coming out. But there is no way this government is going to allow us to have that type of vote. Oh, yes! we may get the semi promised vote, if Cameron and his gang get in again. But it will be so worded that most of us will not understand it, and if we think we do understand it we will be wrong. We will end up voting for the opposite of what we really want.

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kad60

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I do not like homogenized milk and i do not think an homogenized Europe can work free from the power of national sentiment and the strength of the cultures underpinning that sentiment, these serve to undermine the federal european project.

In the USA a diverse people forged a new identity in a new world from scratch,the old world is still behoven to a tradition forged through centuries of conflict and relative peace,i may be wrong and probably will be but the time for this brave new Europe is,probably, not now.

Maybe like the USA it will take longer than we or the EU understand.

It is a condition of the future that change is inevitable,maybe if it was managed better it would be less problematical.

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Quickbeam

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'We didn't pay enough attention in 1975'?

I think that that's true of the electorate after any election when the votes have been counted and we start to get the actions put into place.

The difference being that nearly 40 years on, there seems to be quite a majority that don't consider that we have what we thought we were getting, including the PM (as was referenced by himself in his speech).

So like the cooling off period that we're allowed on contracts signed on the door step, and the recovery of PPI premiums that we thought were the right thing at the time, and nearly 40 years of dissatisfaction with a service that we're not generally happy with, and with another generation of adults now in place since 1975 that resent inheritance we have given them, I think that we're now entitled to demand a thorough review of the entire EU machine's purpose for the 21st century.

And if that falls on deaf ears, we should be given the option to leave. It's clear from the PM's speech that he wants that EU wide review for the benefit of all EU nations.

It's not just Britain that's dissatisfied, I have a sister near Milan and a cousin in Rome, both for more than 30 years and with families raised, and they report that they think just the same of Brussels as we do.

So when the Brussels bureaucrats tell us that they know best, just who is it that is agreeing with them?

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namtas

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FE You asked

What are you basing your decisions on,

Unlike yourself I haven't made a decision yet, however at present my gut reaction which I believe is the feeling of many is concerns of where this EU is destined to take us if we allow it to role on. We are no now simply talking common market but of a federal Europe.

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flycatcher1

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I am pro Europe but the EU is changing all the time and many people, in many countries, appear to dislike being ruled, in nearly every way by Brussels. I think that the whole organisation needs looking at particularly the finances.

Cameron may have made his Referendum for the wrong reasons but it has made people think which must be a good thing.

If the EU looks like becoming a federal state because of the adoption of the Euro Common Currency I for one will vote OUT. I just hope that I live long enough to have my say.

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flycatcher1

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fm. Your erudition does you credit but you know what I mean

Thinking that the grass is always greener elsewhere is a trap for young players but this does not mean that efforts should be made to improve a situation.

I invest in shares- carefully- but I will have nothing to do with firms whose finances are uncertain. The EU finances are in a mess and need sorting. It is not a Company that any sensible investor would consider.

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