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EU In/Out? Is a referendum the best way?


spider9
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I'd always thought we were a Parliamentary Democracy, and, as such, we elect paid representatives to take difficult decisions on our behalf.

Membership of Europe is a difficult , complicated topic, and most people (including myself) would be hard pushed to appreciate all the pros and cons - so the populace will now be bombarded by media propaganda aimed at the lowest common denominator, I suspect.

Loads of 'crazy' EU stories will emerge and be fed to the Great British public, with 'good' EU stories being more difficult to show. Hence the media barons will, once again, get their way and politicians can then 'blame' us if it turns out bad.

Weak leadership I'm afraid.

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john bunyan

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To go back to the original question, on referendums.What would be the result of a referendum on death penalty, gay marriage, tightening immigration control, cancelling the EU court on "human rights" , whether the English want the Scots in the UK, and so on. The fact is we have a particular form of parliamentary democracy in which referendums are rare, and I remain uncertain if one on this issue is a good idea.

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shellship

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**fourm Ted Heath, when he was out of politics, was challenged many times that he misled us when we thought it was all and only about free trade. His reply was always that we were to join a federation but he never said so at the time.

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Aitchbee

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I'll be a-listnin' into what Jazza has got to say 'bout the EU 'kerfuffles' in the omnibus edition of the Archers this sunday [as will millions of others] whilst I'm doin' my dirty dishes. David Cameron's 'heart & soul' method of convincing Britain to stay inside the EU, might need the extra 'brains' of his newly-appointed spin-doctor(s) to win a YES vote in the referendum.

PS. I can't get BOLD Italics etc. to work in the reply box :o{

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oresome

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I can't express it any better than spider9.

The question is far too complex to be answered in a referendum and should be answered by our elected leaders taking account of all the economic and political ramifications.

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morddwyd

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"I would go for the out vote just because I do not like laws that stop us deporting murderers rapist and Terrorist suspects back to their own countries."

And that illustrates the problem in a nutshell.

People are simply not aware that that particular issue, like many others, just as contentious, has nothing to do with the EU, but is down to the European Court of Human Rights, an entirely separate treaty obligation.

Anything unpopular, just shout as loudly as possible "It's the EU".

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morddwyd

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" I for one do not intend to cede them ultimate victory via the back door!"

I fear you are too late.

With the exception of the invasion of the UK, which was pretty much an afterthought anyway, German intentions of the 1930s have been 95% achieved.

A unified Europe, led by a Franco-German alliance with weak French politicians dominated by strong German ones, the British Empire finished as a world influence, and the UK banished to the periphery.

Cameron is just putting some finishing touches to it.

For the record, I like Germany, I have lots of friends there, and holidayed there every year until travel became impossible.

While I don't particularly like Merkel I think Adenauer, Brandt and Kohl were some of the ablest politicians seen in Europe since 1945.

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Aitchbee

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One or two French government ministers have given 'knee-jerk' but honest reactions to David Cameron's historic speech this morning. The French do not like Britain very much, so it would seem an unsurmountable task to persuade all of the EU member states to side with Britain.David Cameron is asking a lot, but it's not impossible. The shenanigans that go on in the lofty towers of governments [here and in Europe] are as clear as mud.

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kad60

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Straight off,no,my view will change only if we have an honest and open debate void of the shrill comments by the naysayers and clarity from the yeasayers.

A clear understanding can only be undertaken when the pro's and con's are set out without bias,an impossible view i fear,'our' thoughts on the point are already coloured by media twisting and turning as well as the GOV's selective use of various treaty obligations when it suits them.

My present view is that the EU will not 'curb its enthusiasim' for greater central power or engage in clear and much needed reform,especially regarding its fiscal status,still no signing off of the audit and that its expansion was fast tracked without accepting or even acknowledging the issues.

There is still too much secrecy and not enough transparencey in the EU,that democratic deficit is a sore point among many sore points.

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spider9

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morddwyd "Anything unpopular, just shout as loudly as possible "It's the EU"."

You are perfectly correct, and illustrate how people who do not understand all the different treaties involved in our present lives can possibly answer such a profound question as In/Out.

However, I hope you realise there is a worse shout than "It's the EU", and that is "It's the EU's Health and Safety laws"!!!

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MAJ

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It tickles me to see that you think there is going to be a referendum, too many ifs and buts in my opinion, and then you think that the question will be simple enough to give a yes/no answer.

To me the real problem is with immigration, there's just too many coming in to the UK and Ireland and remember Bulgaria's and Romania's citizens will be eligible to come over later this year. As an avid fisherman I have seen the wholesale rape of our rivers and lakes by a lot of these people and it sickens me. I don't know if leaving the EU would mean that they are all sent back home (probably not) but if it did mean that, I for one would vote for leaving.

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