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EU In/Out? Is a referendum the best way?


spider9
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I'd always thought we were a Parliamentary Democracy, and, as such, we elect paid representatives to take difficult decisions on our behalf.

Membership of Europe is a difficult , complicated topic, and most people (including myself) would be hard pushed to appreciate all the pros and cons - so the populace will now be bombarded by media propaganda aimed at the lowest common denominator, I suspect.

Loads of 'crazy' EU stories will emerge and be fed to the Great British public, with 'good' EU stories being more difficult to show. Hence the media barons will, once again, get their way and politicians can then 'blame' us if it turns out bad.

Weak leadership I'm afraid.

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fourm member

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Quickbeam

'I don't think that many (the forum paragon fm excepted) would have considered it to be what we wanted'

Now, there's the thing, isn't it? Very few of us, unless we happen to be very good at kicking a football, would say that we have what we want.

We're discontented about all manner of things and, naturally, we try and find someone to blame for that discontent. It's easy to choose the EU especially when the media do such a good job of misrepresenting its actions.

If the Tories get an overall majority in 2015 and if the EU agrees to substantial changes to our relationship with it we'll have a referendum.

During the run-up to that referendum I'm sure enough people will realise that leaving the EU won't suddenly solve all their problems.

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Quickbeam

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I certainly believe that at least the debate is necessary for the long term credibility of the EU.

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fourm member

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Quickbeam

That we can agree on.

Where we differ is that I look forward to a 'Yes' vote putting an end to the squabbling for a long time to come.

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spider9

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Quickbeam

"Well I was 19 at the time, so foolishness was the norm!"

You may well have been, but the general voting population was as old (and wise?) as they are/will be when the next referendum is called - so it seems a bit daft to clain we endorsed our membership in 1975 under false circumstances because you didn't really understand.

Having said that, it was earlier in this thread that I had to point out to you your total misunderstanding of the Salmond/Cameron positions re. the Scottish referendum and EU possible one - which might just cast some doubt on your present ability to understand all the implications, and hence my original thread question about whether it is wise to leave such a momentous vote to us plebs!!

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namtas

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morddwyd

And does anybody really believe that the import duty which would be levied on Mercedes cars would make them more available in the UK?

All this is scare tactics, in reality no one can believes that any EU manufacturer would allow that to happen, to remain static and watch sales worth millions disappear because of a tariff imposed for no good reason, I don't think so. In fact they would probably look to relocate first.

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Quickbeam

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spider9

Do be aware that your bold accusatory you encompasses the opinions several million UK voters. Even the FE seemed to be thrown onto his defensive back foot earlier to distance himself from the perception of how his mention of fools should be interpreted.

I do wonder that if you really believe that all decisions should be made on behalf of us plebs, that all political decisions should return back to behind the closed doors of country houses by our betters that must surly know better...?

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hssutton

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FE

I hope that remark doesn't refer to anything I've written, because I have not said any such thing. Those who voted in the 1975 referendum could only vote on the question they were asked, which was "Do you think the UK should stay in the European Community (Common Market)?"

Yes it does refer to something you've written

Nobody but a fool would have doubted then that the ultimate progression would be from a trading alliance to a political one - it was inevitable, and was mentioned repeatedly in the media at the time, as well as in parliament.

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Quickbeam

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Light the blue touch paper and...

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Forum Editor

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hssutton

Yes, I know that, I was just giving you the opportunity to realise that what you said was a little off the mark. I recommend that you read my earlier post on the subject. I had earlier said that I was not going to engage further in this discussion, and here I am, engaging again. It's going nowhere, this minute dissection of who said what. The referendum - if there is one - will not take place until 2016. We'll all be churning the whole subject over and over again before then, of that I'm quite sure.

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spider9

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Quickbeam "..how his mention of fools should be interpreted"

At no stage was I saying you were a fool - simply that it is likely that you won't appreciate all the in/out possibilities (particularly when failing to understand even that original Scots/EU matter- which was pretty obvious, after all!).

I would be the first to admit my own lack of full knowledge in this question of in/out, and I truly believe I am in the majority in that!

My worry tends to be that allowing all the populace to vote on such a complex matter might just be catastrophic. When I need an operation, or medicine, I tend to feel safer if I'm being looked after by someone who has studied the subject in depth and, hopefully can make a good judgement call on my behalf - in just the same way my elected representatives should now do in this case.

(Note 'elected representatives', not 'country house 'betters' - although you are presumably just having a dig at the present cabinet millionaires?).

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