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EU In/Out? Is a referendum the best way?


spider9
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I'd always thought we were a Parliamentary Democracy, and, as such, we elect paid representatives to take difficult decisions on our behalf.

Membership of Europe is a difficult , complicated topic, and most people (including myself) would be hard pushed to appreciate all the pros and cons - so the populace will now be bombarded by media propaganda aimed at the lowest common denominator, I suspect.

Loads of 'crazy' EU stories will emerge and be fed to the Great British public, with 'good' EU stories being more difficult to show. Hence the media barons will, once again, get their way and politicians can then 'blame' us if it turns out bad.

Weak leadership I'm afraid.

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Forum Editor

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There will be millions of words written about this issue over the next couple of years, and a good few of them will be in this forum.

Meanwhile, we have an economic recovery to make,and I'm going to focus on that, rather than on something that might never happen. I'll leave this thread to those who want to carry on with it.

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spuds

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Possibly off subject slightly, but fourm member seems to emphasis that trading with the EU as to go out on tender to all EU states. I have just been watching the Parliament program on Freeview with the Select Committee asking questions about the recent burger/horsemeat scare. On the program was a Tesco senior representative, who was reporting that the horsemeat originated from a now unknown source in Poland, something that Tesco knew nothing about. Yet at the same time, the Tesco representative was stating that Tesco have a very strict policy on knowing about the products they sell, where it comes from, and how it is produced.

This sort of incident reminds me of the stories about olive groves and vineyards that received large grants, but never really existed in the form or shape claimed.

Now I wonder what happened to the checks or quality controls that should have been picked up at the tendering stages?.

The UK imports a vast amount of food and other manufactured products from outside the EU, as do many other EU countries who trade outside the union. So perhaps on that basis alone, keeping it in the EU doesn't really apply, and never as done.

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fourm member

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Flak999

I have better things to do with my time than talk to a brick wall, as the saying goes.

My participation in this thread has mostly been to point out the myth that European political unity was never mentioned before the 1975 referendum.

That takes us right back to the start of the thread.

People calling for a referendum have admitted that the public didn't pay attention to the issues in 1975. Perhaps they'll claim that 'lessons have been learned' and they'll pay more attention this time.

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Quickbeam

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It'll all no doubt be repeated on an annual basis until the big vote, if we get it.

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flycatcher1

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On Radio Four this morning I heard Ken Clarke, a well known Pro European, list some things that had to be changed in Europe. The one thing that he did not enlarge on was how the changes were to be made.

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hssutton

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It's been suggested on this forum that those who voted thinking they where voting for a common market are/where fools.

Now we're being referred to as brick walls. Is it possible that the reverse is true?

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Forum Editor

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hssutton

"It's been suggested on this forum that those who voted thinking they where voting for a common market are/where fools."

I hope that remark doesn't refer to anything I've written, because I have not said any such thing. Those who voted in the 1975 referendum could only vote on the question they were asked, which was "Do you think the UK should stay in the European Community (Common Market)?"

There was a resounding 'yes' vote, which was supported by both Labour and Conservatives alike. At that time the words 'Common market' were routinely used to refer to what was in reality the European Economic Community, which was why the words 'Common Market) appeared in brackets in the referendum question.

Once the result was known the Labour Party and British trade unions joined European institutions, such as the Socialist Group in the European Parliament. They knew, as did millions of people that there was more than a trading alliance involved. You would indeed have to have been a fool at the time, not to realise that; it was constantly referred to in the media. The idea that the British public were somehow duped by both the labour and Conservative governments (both of which officially supported staying in, is a myth.

As for your comment that "Now we're being referred to as brick walls."

Where do you get that idea from? I can see a reference to one person being referred to in that light, but that's all. I think you're just looking for a chance to take a pot-shot at someone. That's your affair, but please don't try it on with me.

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Quickbeam

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Well I was 19 at the time, so foolishness was the norm!

But the fact remains that 40 years on we are all wiser fools (or should be). Had we foreseen the future ( such a wonderful thing fore sight is) as it is, I don't think that many (the forum paragon fm excepted) would have considered it to be what we wanted.

And after 40 years of general discontent, it's certainly fair to give the same choice to the current generation that will be working well into the 21st century and have to live with their choice rather than ours made 40 years ago.

The 1975 vote was a decision for the 21st century made by the mere transient generation of the day, But is it still the best option for now?

We need to either ratify or deny it again with the current generation. Even if anyone that was eligible to vote in 1975 is excluded on account of being an obvious imbecile!

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Woolwell

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FE - you stated "Nobody but a fool would have doubted then that the ultimate progression would be from a trading alliance to a political one".

I and, from his comments, hssutton are then fools because at the time, I had not understood, nor properly informed, that we were remaining in a political alliance.

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Quickbeam

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Fools of the world unite...

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