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EU In/Out? Is a referendum the best way?


spider9
Resolved

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I'd always thought we were a Parliamentary Democracy, and, as such, we elect paid representatives to take difficult decisions on our behalf.

Membership of Europe is a difficult , complicated topic, and most people (including myself) would be hard pushed to appreciate all the pros and cons - so the populace will now be bombarded by media propaganda aimed at the lowest common denominator, I suspect.

Loads of 'crazy' EU stories will emerge and be fed to the Great British public, with 'good' EU stories being more difficult to show. Hence the media barons will, once again, get their way and politicians can then 'blame' us if it turns out bad.

Weak leadership I'm afraid.

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fourm member

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Flak999

I'm actually not interested in trying to persuade anyone to change their views.

What I've been trying to do is to get people to accept that political union has always been at the centre of our relationship with Europe. It is the reason we didn't join and make the original 6 become 7 as long ago as 1957 and people talked about it all the way from then until the 1975 referendum.

Saying 'we thought it was just about a common market' is like saying the reason we don't have capital punishment is because no-one ever talks about it. Or, 'Isn't it a shame there isn't a political party campaigning to end immigration?'

The only rationale I can see for continuing with the belief that unity was never mentioned is that people opposed to the EU fear they are in the minority and try and comfort themselves with the fiction that the 1975 referendum result was a fudge because there wasn't a full debate.

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Aitchbee

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fourm member - once again you demonstrate your talent for twisting around what other people say - It's so obvious.

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namtas

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Just how do you think there can be 'mutually beneficial trading arrangements' if the UK is outside the EU?

fourm member

Does anyone really believe that Mercedes would suddenly decide to stop selling cars to the UK? or that Total would suddenly close down all of its forecourts and oil distribution. The fact is we are a valuable trading partner with the EU and we would remain so in or out.

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morddwyd

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"Does anyone really believe that Mercedes would suddenly decide to stop selling cars to the UK?"

And does anybody really believe that the import duty which would be levied on Mercedes cars would make them more available in the UK?

And does anybody really believe, to quote just one example, that Dundee's biggest employer, Michelin, would continue to operate, paying an EU import levy in order to sell tyres to Citroen/Peugeot?

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fourm member

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namtas

'The fact is we are a valuable trading partner with the EU and we would remain so in or out.'

But that is the bet isn't it?

We might stay valuable but can anyone say with certainty 'as valuable'.

It's not about Mercedes selling cars here, anyway. It's about the German government wanting a new pension fund manager and, at present, having to ask UK firms to tender.

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fourm member

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Aitchbee

'It's so obvious.'

Well, not to me it isn't. I have no idea what you are on about.

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namtas

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forum member, you asked

Just how do you think there can be 'mutually beneficial trading arrangements' if the UK is outside the EU?

Then in reply you say its not about trading anyway,

It's about the German government wanting a new pension fund manager and, at present, having to ask UK firms to tender.

I am becoming confused

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namtas

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forum member, you cannot have it both ways, you asked

Just how do you think there can be 'mutually beneficial trading arrangements' if the UK is outside the EU?

Instead of answering the question in reply you say its not about trading anyway,

It's about the German government wanting a new pension fund manager and, at present, having to ask UK firms to tender.

I am becoming confused

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fourm member

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namtas

The rules of the single market part of the EU say that public bodies have to put out tenders for goods and services above a certain value. Those tenders have to go to all EU states.

Because we are in the EU we get the chance to supply products and services to lots of bodies who would shut us out if we left the EU.

If you don't recognise that as trading, it might explain why you can't see the good being in the EU does.

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Flak999

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fourm member

I'm actually not interested in trying to persuade anyone to change their views.

Some people less charitable than me, might see the white flag being waved with that answer! I definitely have the feeling with you, that you just like an argument for the sake of it rather than actually believing what you say.

There's nothing wrong with that, discussion boards all over the internet are filled with people doing exactly the same thing.

It's what passes for sport in cyberspace. ;-)

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