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EU In/Out? Is a referendum the best way?


spider9
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I'd always thought we were a Parliamentary Democracy, and, as such, we elect paid representatives to take difficult decisions on our behalf.

Membership of Europe is a difficult , complicated topic, and most people (including myself) would be hard pushed to appreciate all the pros and cons - so the populace will now be bombarded by media propaganda aimed at the lowest common denominator, I suspect.

Loads of 'crazy' EU stories will emerge and be fed to the Great British public, with 'good' EU stories being more difficult to show. Hence the media barons will, once again, get their way and politicians can then 'blame' us if it turns out bad.

Weak leadership I'm afraid.

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Flak999

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Interesting piece here from the Daily Telegraph another reason, if one were needed why we need to regain control of our borders!

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Forum Editor

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Flak999

"When the groundswell of public opinion is known and the decision to leave is made, all else will flow from that."

And what if the "groundswell of public opinion" is that we should remain a member state of the EU - what then for Britain?

What makes you so sure that the people of this country will be so blinded by the frenzy of the euro-haters that will be whipped up by certain sections of the media, that they'll vote for an isolationist UK?

It would be a step into the economic abyss, one that would see us estranged from our long-time American allies - who desperately want us in Europe. Countries like Australia, Canada, India and New Zealand have been busy establishing themselves as independent trading nations, and we will not be able to look to them for trading favours when we are all alone in the world, a world that is a very different place to the one that we enjoyed when we were a major manufacturing nation.

You're living in the past, Flak999, and that attitude is not going to butter any parsnips in the reality of the 21st century. Our future is bound up with Europe,like it or not, and the sooner we realise that we'll achieve far more in a united Europe than we ever will outside it the better.

The EU has problems, some of them are big problems, but they'll be resolved in time. Jumping ship because you don't like some of the rules is an immature reaction to what was an inevitable situation. Europe was always going to encounter these problems, it is a massive undertaking, this coming together of a variety of countries with their long and complex histories. Making it work is a job for visionaries and grafters alike; it's not for those who can't get past their nationalistic attitudes.

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john bunyan

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FE

Thank you for a very good summary of the thoughts of many of us.

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spider9

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Flak999 "but the referendum when it comes is the first step."

Maybe you should say if? It is depending on so many things (mainly if the Tory election win happens, of course).

FE

Thank goodness for the reality check you have provided - I certainly wouldn't want to live and be governed by such xenophobic leaders as would arise after an 'Out' decision.

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Woolwell

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FE stated "The EU has problems, some of them are big problems, but they'll be resolved in time." I wish I had that confidence as it currently doesn't seem likely. They have to sort out their budget and stop moving Parliament from Strasbourg to Brussels and back and many other things including CAP and double payments. The economies of Greece and Spain, etc need resolving.

The European Court of Justice and the European Court of Human Rights need reining in too.

It has been mentioned but back in the 70's we were misled/misinformed into thinking that we were joining a Common Market not a political federation. I was unable to vote in 1975 as I was out of the UK. But the attitude was "it's too late we are already in".

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Flak999

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Forum Editor

And what if the "groundswell of public opinion" is that we should remain a member state of the EU - what then for Britain?

If that set of circumstances should arise then of course we will all have to live with the consequences of that decision. But I feel very confident that we will get the decision needed to save ourselves from EU federalism.

I may be living in the past, but I'm looking to the future. A future outside of the EU, I shall campaign for it in my own small way and I know that many, many others will do the same. But if the worst does happen and we vote to remain I will be able to console myself with the thought that at least I did not walk willingly into the abyss!

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Flak999

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spider9

Maybe you should say if? It is depending on so many things (mainly if the Tory election win happens, of course).

On that score I think Cameron has played a bit of a blinder! As things stand his is the only party offering the electorate a vote on continued EU membership, all of the UKIP supporters and anti EU voters will vote for him because of the referendum. This will ensure a Conservative victory and secure the referendum.

As I said before, once we have that everything else will naturally follow!

I look forward with relish to the battle ahead.

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fourm member

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Flak999

That Telegraph piece made me laugh so much I couldn't finish it.

After complaining about being ignored by the Muslims she meets she talks about living in London for 25 years ago and keeping 'the habit of chatting to shopkeepers and neighbours, despite it not being the done thing in metropolitan life'.

So, when she first came to London people ignored her and didn't engage in chit chat and now it is the same. Except, of course, for the change in colour. I find it is better to laugh at racists.

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fourm member

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spider9

Seems your attempt to explain the hurdles to be crossed before a referendum has fallen on deaf ears.

Says it all really.

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Flak999

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fourm member

You don't live in London do you!

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