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EU In/Out? Is a referendum the best way?


spider9
Resolved

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I'd always thought we were a Parliamentary Democracy, and, as such, we elect paid representatives to take difficult decisions on our behalf.

Membership of Europe is a difficult , complicated topic, and most people (including myself) would be hard pushed to appreciate all the pros and cons - so the populace will now be bombarded by media propaganda aimed at the lowest common denominator, I suspect.

Loads of 'crazy' EU stories will emerge and be fed to the Great British public, with 'good' EU stories being more difficult to show. Hence the media barons will, once again, get their way and politicians can then 'blame' us if it turns out bad.

Weak leadership I'm afraid.

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Aitchbee

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QB - HBTieAce or HBIceTea ... just wouldn't be me :o)

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morddwyd

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" is it also weak leadership for Salmond to offer the independence referendum choice to the Scots instead of making their decision for them?"

Not quite the same.

Despite his own personal convictions, Salmond has always said he would let the people decide through a referendum. He has fought all his campaigns with this as a major plank.

Cameron, on the other hand, has decided this is an unpopular decision, which he does not wish to make.

Just as Salmond ran a full term as a minority government, and Cameron didn't think he could face it, simply different styles of leadership is all.

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Quickbeam

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"Cameron, on the other hand, has decided this is an unpopular decision, which he does not wish to make."

I think that he's quite shrewdly managed to get all the politicians to dance to his tune at the next election by doing this.

UKIP are made irrelevant at a stroke, the LibDems are thrust into turmoil and confusion being the most EU supportive party, in a country that's among the most EU sceptical states, and Labour that didn't want the EU mentioning because they're not too sure what their stance is, are forced into offering something similar, or risk disappearing to where there is not much sunlight for 10 years.

Weak leadership, or a master stroke to win a UK election with a safe working majority...?

That all depends which side of the fence you want to fall to.

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Aitchbee

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On a practical note, will the EU referendum votes be collected over the usual electoral finite 7am-10pm time period or will the voting platform be of a digital nature only, by the time the British public have their say in 2017? Many of the traditional voting polling stations near my house, have been razed to the ground recently, ie. Primary Schools.

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Bing.alau

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Bingalau became Bing.alau purely by accident and was too lazy to change it back again. I think john bunyan should change his monicker by using capital letters and become John Bunyan. Aitchbee should of course use a capital and become Haitchbee. I've feeling his initials are probably H.B. anyway. I have no idea how much lead he has in his pencil though.

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Quickbeam

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HB has every right to feel quite offended at the sugestion of being a 9B...

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john bunyan

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Bing.alau

Thank you. I originally "coined the monicker" in a rush, as I thought of being a pilgrim, wandering aimlessly through later life. I shall follow others and change, probably to New JB

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fourm member

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Quickbeam

'That all depends which side of the fence you want to fall to.'

Quite right. morddwyd's characterisation of Salmond and Cameron is viewed from one position.

Just as easy to say that Cameron was able to form a stable coalition because the LibDems realised how important it was to move forward. And Salmond had to run a minority because no-one would work with him.

That's why I said it is the undecideds that matter.

Just grabbing one poll for each; 'if a referendum was held now 40% would vote in favour of leaving the EU, with 37% wanting to stay and 23% undecided' for the EU vote and, in Scotland, 28% of voters currently back independence,support for the union stands at 48% and 24% are undecided.

So, although the number of undecideds is very similar the big difference is that 61% of undecideds have to choose to stay in the EU for Cameron to win but 96% of undecideds have to side with Salmond.

Of course, the other thing 'undecideds' are undecided about is whether to vote at all. Bulgaria held a referendum, yesterday. The law there says a 60% turnout must be achieved for the referendum to count. Turnout seems to have been about 21%.

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Quickbeam

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Well, I suppose that we can at least all agree that the next few years will be quite interesting regarding our feelings towards the EU as the battle for the undecideds takes to the field.

Didn't you like being New FM after all?

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Bing.alau

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Quickbeam. Perhaps there are two of them after all. (God forbid).

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