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EU In/Out? Is a referendum the best way?


spider9
Resolved

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I'd always thought we were a Parliamentary Democracy, and, as such, we elect paid representatives to take difficult decisions on our behalf.

Membership of Europe is a difficult , complicated topic, and most people (including myself) would be hard pushed to appreciate all the pros and cons - so the populace will now be bombarded by media propaganda aimed at the lowest common denominator, I suspect.

Loads of 'crazy' EU stories will emerge and be fed to the Great British public, with 'good' EU stories being more difficult to show. Hence the media barons will, once again, get their way and politicians can then 'blame' us if it turns out bad.

Weak leadership I'm afraid.

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Flak999

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spider9

From your opening post and the comments you have made since I assume you are content to not only remain part of the EU but continue down the road to federalism?

Because make no mistake that is where we are headed. If you are content to become just a constituent part of a federal europe then that is of course your choice. Not me however, I will fight that nightmare scenario whilst I still have breath in my body!

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New FM

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spider9

We know that you are a strong supporter of independence and that I am a strong opponent. But that doesn't matter because the Scottish referendum will be decided by those who are currently undecided.

Try and see things from their point of view.

Much has been made of the SNP's claim that an independent Scotland would automatically become a member of the EU. But what if the rest of the UK leaves?

Is Salmond going to say that he was only joking about how important the EU would be to an independent Scotland and if the UK leaves Scotland would leave?

Or is he going to accept that Scotland in and England out means having a very expensive hard border between the two to stop smuggling from outside the EU into the EU?

Note I said EU not Scotland because Brussels would insist on a proper border and might pay some of the costs. But, how independent is that?

Cameron has created uncertainty about what would happen in a independent Scotland. Undecideds hate uncertainty and vote for the status quo.

It seems to me quite probable that some undecideds will think it is best to say 'No' for now and, maybe, think about it again once the EU position is clear.

Given that the polling suggests that almost every undecided has to vote 'Yes' it seems likely that Cameron has done enough to destroy any chance of a vote for Salmond.

There is no doubt that Cameron's move was extremely good politics. Unfortunately, for everyone, good politcs and good governance are two very different things.

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Quickbeam

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spider9 The 4th Reich blether was Flak999's.

It does however demonstrate how unready we all are to fully embrace a federal Europe if the UK and Spain amongst others can't accept unions that have been agreed by earlier generations.

If we don't get a thorough review at the start of this century, we'll not make it to the end.

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Quickbeam

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New FM Are you related to the old fm?

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Quickbeam

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"the Scottish referendum will be decided by those who are currently undecided."

That's a strikingly blunt point, as the EU referendum will also be decided by the same people. Non of our minds that are already made up will count for anything in it!

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spuds

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I know this is off subject, but is New FM the old forum member, activating a New Years resolution?.

I do find it confusing when people use similar or suddenly change their names :o)

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New FM

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I didn't want to divert the thread by explaining. The site decided fourm member never existed (I checked with the FE that it wasn't anything he'd done) so I thought 'New FM' would be obvious.

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spuds

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"so I thought 'New FM' would be obvious".

It was, by the similar contribution style at 10.19am.

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Quickbeam

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That's why I asked too. If it wasn't you that posted, it must surely be son of fm that did!

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spider9

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New FM *" We know that you are a strong supporter of independence "*

I don't believe I've actually said that - what I have said is that it's up to the Scots (and I'm not one of them!) and will only decide which way I might vote when all the information, or, as you might say 'propaganda' has been heard (and we have till 2014 I am led to believe!!).

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