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winter fuel allowance should be scrapped


N47.

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for the majority and just given to those who claim pension credit ie the poorest of pensioners.

If the working well paid can loose their child benefit if one of them earns over £60,000 why can't those pensioners who do not really need it, have it.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2256466/Paul-Burstow-Four-pensioners-lose-help-fuel-bills-raise-1-5billion-fund-elderly-care.html

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lotvic

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BT, that's a good point, I had to put in more than 30 years as well to get 100% state pension.

Statistics, Love 'em or hate 'em: If you had 2 single pensioners - both receiving £142.70p per week - one claiming a 50% state pension + pension credit and the other claiming 26% state pension + pension credit, then their average income from state pension would be 38%.

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VCR97

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A couple of posts refer to refusing to accept the winter fuel allowance. I am not aware of this option. What is the procedure?

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lotvic

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Cheques/BACS may be sent to me..

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spider9

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bumpkin "Seems like it is a crime to want something back"**

I was under the impression that National Insurance was what it says - insurance.

I suppose that you write and complain to your house/car insurers when they don't give refunds at the end of each year??

The idea of the NI scheme was that those fortunate enough, or to be lucky enough, never to fall on hard times are prepared to contribute towards those that cannot.

All 'insurance' works on the same principles, some groups pay for the others needs. Personally if someone needs expensive heart surgery or cancer treatment and I don't - then I consider myself lucky not to be claiming that particular largesse courtesy of the taxpayer.

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spuds

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I notice that there as been mention of means testing and also an increase on Saga holidays, but as anyone thought deeper into this?.

Perhaps some of the more wealthy, might consider spending some of their ill gotten gains on themselves, before letting the government decide on how their nest egg should be spent?.

Regarding means testing, the government did an exercise about six years ago, which lasted for about four years. Pensioner's were receiving an annual letter informing them that the government had surplus unclaimed funds available, that people were not claiming, and it was their 'rights' to do so. The only problem was that it all became a catch 22 situation, because many people were unable to actually claim, because they were slightly over the 'wealth or poverty' line in the reckoning. It took the government four years to realise the administration costs were outweighing any funds being actually paid out. So somewhere, there are still surplus unclaimed money about?.

Pension credits have also been mentioned. I know of one person who gets a pension plus pays no council tax, yet still complains that they do not get enough from the state. That person left school, got married, produced two children, became a full time mother and housewife, and as never took up full time employment throughout her life. Do I feel annoyed about that, yes I do, because I have paid all my dues throughout my life, and I feel as though I am still reaping far less than I paid, yet others have paid nothing?.

Winter fuel allowance, plus the £10 Christmas bonus as been a godsend for some, and lets hope it remains so. Those that do not want it have the choice of refusal or giving it away to their chosen charity perhaps?.

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bumpkin

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Spider9, I did not ask for anything back it was offered. To use your analogy if your car insurer offered you a refund or discount would you refuse it? I agree with you on the NHS issue, the less I need to use it the happier I am however much I have paid in.

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spider9

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spuds "That person left school, got married, produced two children, became a full time mother and housewife, and as never took up full time employment throughout her life"

You say she 'as' never worked - what's wrong with that? Is it a requirement that all women go out to work, even if their husband's income is sufficient for the family?

"I feel as though I am still reaping far less than I paid"

Therein lies the rub, you feel the 'Insurance' is simply a saving scheme , so what you pay in you get back. That would be a ridiculous situation, and defeats the whole notion of 'insurance'.

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lotvic

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fourm member, your post Today at 6:51PM. I watched the vid as you seem unable/unwilling to point me directly to the text source of your info in the numerous documents on your link. I did not find it particularly useful and thought it a rather rushed presentation.

However I delved into the .pdfs and found figures for fuel poverty that I will quote from:

"A related concept is that of 'fuel poverty'. Households are considered to be in fuel poverty if they have to spend more than 10 per cent of their income on fuel to maintain a satisfactory level of heating (21 degrees Celsius for the main living area and 18 degrees Celsius for other occupied rooms). A report published in 2009 by the Department of Energy and Climate Change estimated that the number of households in fuel poverty in England rose from 1.2 million (6 per cent) in 2003 to 2.8 million (13 per cent) in 2007. The type of household most affected by fuel poverty was that of single people aged 60 or over. In 2007, over 30 per cent of households of single people aged 60 or over in England (1.0 million) were in fuel poverty (Figure 13.19). "

I wonder if that figure has gone up or down since 2007.

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lotvic

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My comment was (and still is) "I wonder if that figure has gone up or down since 2007"

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spuds

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spider9 - "You say she 'as' never worked -what's wrong with that? Is it a requirement that all women go out to work, even if their husband's income is sufficient for the family?".

I suppose there is nothing wrong, providing the husband's income is sufficient, and in this particular case, they got divorced while the children were still fairly young, and the husband's income was insufficient, and it was better for her to rely on the State up to the present day.

But back to the 'insurance' subject, is very like having 'paid-up' insurance for a motor vehicle or life policy. You have to pay in it to expect to reap the benefits from it at times of need. And this is were the crunch begins, as to what payments have been made into a scheme and who is benefiting. I left school on a Friday and was due to start work on the following Monday, but due to other circumstances I began employment into a different trade a week later. Throughout that time I have always paid my dues (including possible higher rate taxation), the many years I was never in the UK long-term.

If taking the figures mentioned by lotvic, then my State pension is less (pro-rata) than the figures mentioned, and that include additional Serp payments I made being added. Fortunately I took other preventive measures to help safeguard my living standards in retirement, but even that as had its shortfalls, and subject to further legal advice, which I have had to pay extra for.

Yet we still hear about "winter fuel allowance 'should' be scrapped", and other similar remarks like pensioner's already get enough, and if they don't, then means test them. So perhaps I should ask for a simple answer as to why, when some of us have already made our donations at various levels over the years?.

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