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Homophobic post perhaps


Al94
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Ok, I know I'm probably asking for trouble here but something I saw yesterday that really irritated both my wife and myself.

Sir Ian McKellen (an actor who I usually have respect for) was interviewed on the Andrew Marr show yesterday morning. I didn't see the entire interview but we were both incredulous at the part where he said he was off to Edinburgh to visit and talk to schools to promote homosexuality and affirm the ideal that it was ok to be gay. He said school children's jaws usually dropped when they heard that it was once possible to be jailed for being in love with someone of the same sex.

As a parent (albeit of offspring now old enough to make their own minds up) I would have been incensed if I thought that sort of message was being sent out to my family in our schools. It is bad enough that so many children's tv programmes portray this as a totally normal alternative.

I don't consider myself to be homophobic, I am opposed to gay marriage per se as I believe marriage should be reserved for the traditional male/female partnership but at the same time I know several gay people and don't have any issue with their relationships - what they do is entirely their own business. I respect them and they respect my opinion.

I just think it is entirely inappropriate that our young people from an early age appear to be having the message thrust on them that this is an entirely open acceptable norm.

Am I wrong?

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Flak999

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Al94

Fair play to you for starting this thread, it's a very contentious issue that's for sure. I'm glad you decided to stick your head above the parapet on this one and not me! How long it's allowed to run for is very debatable in itself.

My view on homosexuality is that it is a genetic or chromosomal condition present at birth. One does not choose to become a homosexual, you are born that way. It is not normal, it is abnormal. All animals are born with sexual organs to enable the procreation of young to increase the species, it is patently obvious that if homosexuality were the norm the human species would eventually die out.

To be honest I feel sorry for anybody who is homosexual, it is a very difficult road that they have embarked upon and I don't believe anybody would willingly choose that particular lifestyle, therefore I don't think choice is involved, it is as uncontrollable an urge for homosexuals as heterosexuality is for the majority of the population.

I think that these alternative lifestyles should be explained to young people, but they should not be told they are normal because they are not. It is of course wrong to persecute somebody for their sexuality and so long as homosexuals live according to the law they should be afforded the same rights and responsibilities as the rest of us.

What they should not receive however, is any special standing or status in society.

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Forum Editor

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"My point is the even more may be tempted to experiment because of the message being sent out these days. Children will emulate role models and as more and more story lines appear around homosexual characters and more "camp" presenters appear this is surely an unacceptable risk."

So what if some young people are "tempted to experiment" - what's wrong with that?

"as more and more story lines appear around homosexual characters and more "camp" presenters appear this is surely an unacceptable risk."**

An unacceptable risk of what?

I'm finding it more and more difficult to grasp the fact that in the 21st century there are still people around who are so prejudiced and ignorant that they actually believe there's something wrong with being gay, and that there's an 'unacceptable risk' attached to educating schoolchildren about the facts, rather than allowing them to develop the same appalling prejudices.

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bjh.

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Flak999

There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever of homosexuality being a chromosomal "condition" - which is an interesting turn of phrase in itself. The idea that there is (or will be found) a "gay gene" is the stuff of simplistic Daily Mail reports. It may be your view, but it is one born from ignorance of the facts.

By the way, not "all animals are born with.... to increase the species". In addition, homosexual behaviour is rife in a huge variety of species, and has a strong evolutionary reason to be so. Indeed, it is probably the "norm", to use your expression.

Why do you condiser homosexuality to not be normal? What do you mean, that it is a minority condition (in which case being an adult male is also not "normal")? It is certainly not abnormal. Even if the majority of a species were homosexual, that would not necessarily mean a lower reproductive viability for the species as a whole - indeed, it could mean a higher viability.

I do agree that the young should be educated as to these ("alternative" I'd have to disagree) lifestyles, but without the overtones of moral disapproval that seems all-too rife from some in this thread.

Your final sentence seems at odds with the rest of your post. I'd say they should be treated as normally as anyone else - no distinction whatsoever. Certainly, not that they'd be viewed as abnormal. That would be to grant "special" status indeed...

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bjh.

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http://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1086/668167

Current views, December 2012, respectable journal.

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Forum Editor

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Flak999

"To be honest I feel sorry for anybody who is homosexual, it is a very difficult road that they have embarked upon and I don't believe anybody would willingly choose that particular lifestyle, therefore I don't think choice is involved"

And there I was, thinking that you might be relied upon to have an enlightened attitude about this.

Gay people don't 'embark' on being gay - you said yourself that it's a matter of genetics, and there you are, in the next paragraph, contradicting yourself.

Difficult as you might find it to understand, there are tens of millions of people (perhaps hundred of millions)who are delighted to be gay. It's their natural state of sexuality. I know that lots of people find the whole subject distasteful, but that's something they have to deal with. An enlightened society understands that being gay is a natural human condition, one that has been with us since homo-sapiens first walked the earth. Young people should be educated to understand that, and not the ridiculous, uninformed claptrap that I'm seeing in some of the posts in this thread.

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Flak999

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bjh.

An interesting highly technical article, which posits theory's regarding the causes of homosexuality. You wont get an argument from me regarding children being born homosexual, as I believe as I have already stated that they are.

The article seems to say that no direct genetic linkage to homosexuality has been found but that in certain cases this may be a reason? Obviously more research is necessary.

I consider homosexuality to not be normal because as I have already stated male and female animals are born with reproductive organs to enable the male to impregnate the female to enable the birth of offspring to continue the species! Two males or two females cannot carry out this most basic reproductive function!

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Flak999

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Forum Editor

"And there I was, thinking that you might be relied upon to have an enlightened attitude about this."

Sorry to disappoint as usual, :-) Perhaps I used the wrong choice of words when I said "embark upon" I did not intend to mean that I thought that homosexuality was a lifestyle choice, I don't! There is no choice involved, I believe homosexuals are born that way.

What I meant was, that homosexuality is not an easy condition to live with, and that nobody would willingly choose to be homosexual as opposed to being heterosexual because of the still prevalent hostility towards homosexuality that still pervades society.

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Al94

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I agree with Flak999 about homosexuality being a difficult lifestyle.

I have met many homosexuals and totally disagree with FE's sweeping statement that many millions are happy to be gay. Many I have met have very unfulfilling lifestyles, shallow and impulsive relationships often very furtive which leads to more unhappiness (yes I know that is not limited to gay relationships) but it seems more prevalent. Some have admitted to me that they would prefer a normal relationship but it just isn't for them. I have noticed an alarming number of suicides due to deep unhappiness and loneliness. I read a report where 73% of psychiatrists say homosexuals are less happy than the average person, and of those psychiatrists, 70% say that the unhappiness is NOT due to social stigmatization. This coupled with the high prevalence of alcoholism, drug abuse and other well documented health issues confirms that the lifestyle should not be promoted as "normal" to our young.

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Forum Editor

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Flak999

"What I meant was, that homosexuality is not an easy condition to live with, and that nobody would willingly choose to be homosexual as opposed to being heterosexual because of the still prevalent hostility towards homosexuality that still pervades society."

If that's what you meant to say I find less to disagree with. Homosexuals are better accepted by society now than at any time in the past - due mainly to better education leading to increased enlightenment. The key is education; as more people realise that homosexuality is nothing to be afraid of (contrary to what A194 believes) there will be an even greater degree of acceptance. Gay people don't pose any threat to society, but bigotry and prejudice do.

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cycoze

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Perfectly normal behaviour throughout the animal kingdom, mammals, birds and reptiles alike!

Darwin suggested that sexual arousal was for heterosexuals to reproduce, modern studies however have shown that both male/male and female/female pair bonding is very wide spread.

I photographed a same sex legal ceremony and the following reception, met a lot of very nice people, both of the heterosexual and homosexual varieties, they all looked liked people to me! one of the nicest "weddings" I have been too.

It is a real shame to know that "different" people in life can be attacked/abused/hated/feared for their beliefs and life style choices, I have long hair and tattoos, I get quite a few folk find it OK to voice their opinions or dislike of these, odd as I really don't have a problem that they have short hair or wear a suit etc.

Unfortunately it will take along time for mankind to learn to be less disparaging of each other.

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