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Homophobic post perhaps
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Posted December 17, 2012 at 8:12PM
Ok, I know I'm probably asking for trouble here but something I saw yesterday that really irritated both my wife and myself.
Sir Ian McKellen (an actor who I usually have respect for) was interviewed on the Andrew Marr show yesterday morning. I didn't see the entire interview but we were both incredulous at the part where he said he was off to Edinburgh to visit and talk to schools to promote homosexuality and affirm the ideal that it was ok to be gay. He said school children's jaws usually dropped when they heard that it was once possible to be jailed for being in love with someone of the same sex.
As a parent (albeit of offspring now old enough to make their own minds up) I would have been incensed if I thought that sort of message was being sent out to my family in our schools. It is bad enough that so many children's tv programmes portray this as a totally normal alternative.
I don't consider myself to be homophobic, I am opposed to gay marriage per se as I believe marriage should be reserved for the traditional male/female partnership but at the same time I know several gay people and don't have any issue with their relationships - what they do is entirely their own business. I respect them and they respect my opinion.
I just think it is entirely inappropriate that our young people from an early age appear to be having the message thrust on them that this is an entirely open acceptable norm.
Am I wrong?
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Posted December 20, 2012 at 8:54PM
I would never attempt to put words into other people's mouths... but you do this repeatedly.
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Posted December 20, 2012 at 9:33PM
"I can't read any more of this rubbish"
Let us hope you do not spout anymore of your rubbish doctrine.
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Posted December 20, 2012 at 10:56PM
"Teaching anything to children about sex is stupid. Let them find out naturally as they grow up."
I have to say that I didn't expect such breathtaking ignorance from you. Children who are left to find out about sex "naturally as they grow up" may be lucky, and have sexual encounters that are safe and pleasant, or they may not. Those who don't will often enter adulthood with a warped sense of what makes a loving relationship.
Children need guidance from people they perceive as authoritative and disinterested in them sexually - someone they can trust in other words - and a school is an ideal place for that to happen.
You may think it's stupid to want to educate children in this way, but I think you'll find it's a view that's hard to justify. I'll be interested to see if you're able to come up with a reasoned argument in support of your statement.
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Posted December 21, 2012 at 2:51AM
My son came out when he was 17. It came as a surprise and could have had devastating effects on the whole family. Fortunately, though I am a tad old fashioned, I respect his sexuality. I say fortunately because according to a counsellor we went to a large proportion of children are kicked out and begin the downward spiral to drugs and prostitution. It took a long while to get used to the idea, one helpleaflet likened it to a feeling of bereavement. This was right, except the dead don't come home from school every day. In my profession I meet a lot if Gays, which has helped broaden my mind. My Wife has found it harder, but the one visit to the counsellor was all we needed.We needed to know the correct things to do. Years later he still has to introduce us to a partner but at least he is able to relax now. He fought it for years as a teen. I am really grateful that these modern times have meant he can discuss things openly.and not feel an outcast. The sexual side of it I do not think about, probably the same feeling as thinking about parents doing it! Is it, right, is it wrong, is it in the genes or the upbringing? I can't say. He knows he has our love and support, that is what counts. After all, my lesbian daughter is very happy with her partner and they visit often. So genes, upbringing, I shall wait and see who my other daughter brings into the family. By the way my daughter came out after my son thoughshe is quite a bit older.
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Posted December 21, 2012 at 9:21AM
I respect much of what you say elsewhere, but I have to take issue with" me too
"but teaching should be left to parents" Not other or TV
problem is that parents in most cases could not care a jot about how there children grow up until mr plod comes knocking on the door, hence the increase in crime and criminality among the young and asbose that do not work
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Posted December 21, 2012 at 10:31AM
What the stats given above fails to account for are the other disposals that are now considered for children and yourhs who commit indictable offences.
Restorative justice and warnings would add a very large number to the figures given. This may largely account for the supposed reduction.
By the way the figure for cautions and convictions in the link was 90,000 in 2009 as described in the first sentence.
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Posted December 21, 2012 at 11:02AM
A bit more understanding,acceptance and tolerance 0n both sides may help to move the debate forward. It seems to me reading this that those who support homosexuality are shouting down those who don't in increasing vociferous tones. Perhaps people need to be allowed to have their views and beliefs. The world and society are big and generous enough for both views. The absolute right of one view over another is what led to a facistic authoritarian regime. Rings alarm bells for me.
I remember going to attend a conference on this issue 20/25 years ago when it was not allowed to take place becuase the gay rights movement protested in large numbers that the conference had to be cancelled. I think the debate is still to be had with various sides be allowed to put forward their beliefs. It may never be resolved but society is full of conflicting held views. In essence this is what a healthy society is. The ability to hold and maintain ambivalence.
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Posted December 21, 2012 at 11:18AM
I don't "support homosexuality", I support the right of homosexuals to live a life without the burden of condemnation and persecution that still seems to be rife, and appears to be born of ignorance and fear.
People certainly do need to be allowed to have views and beliefs, but if they post them here, in a discussion forum they must expect others to question them, and to put forward alternative arguments - that's the whole idea of a discussion.
Nobody should expect to come here and express opinions without anyone else saying a word. It isn't going to happen, and if one argument doesn't hold up under examination that's life. Firmly held beliefs which are expressions of religious faith are one thing - you can't question another person's religious conviction - but that's not what we're talking about here.
Ambivalence is absolutely fine, but ethical beliefs should be capable of being defended by the believer - it's not a valid argument to say (about homosexuality for instance) 'I believe it's wrong, and nobody must question it'. That is bigotry, it has nothing to do with a healthy society - exactly the opposite in fact.
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Posted December 21, 2012 at 11:59AM
I'm not sure about the views of those of us who believe that people should be allowed to be who they are would lead to an authoritarian state.
I believe in people having the right to be who they are without fear of persecution and bullying. Sometimes people being who they are means that they are different to the accepted norm and this leads them to be bullied. This is where education is important. Some are saying that this education is promoting homosexuality and encouraging people to become homosexuals who might not otherwise be.
The reason i feel strongly is because education is so important is this area, yet there is so much stigma that it plays into the hands of abusers. Information is power, and abuse of all kinds is about power. There are many that use the shame that surrounds sex to keep victims from speaking out. This is, I feel a deep-seated problem that stems from so called adults avoiding dealing with a sensitive subject in an inappropriate manner.
Sometimes the British stiff upper lip helps no-one.
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Posted December 21, 2012 at 12:21PM
Perhaps in defence of bing.alau and his comment, I was one of many millions who never learnt about sex from my parent's or teacher's, because at that time it was 'not the done thing'. Talk to your mates, or let's play Doctor's and Nurses were the sexual learning curve for some of us!.
Nowadays people seem far more liberal minded in the way they act and do things, and sometimes this can lead to many other problems.
In the television program I mentioned in a previous post, quite a number of teenager's were interviewed including teenage parent's and their parent. It soon became very evident that the education regarding sex, was still " Should I or Shouldn't I" and especially more so with the easy supply of the After Morning pill, being provided by some school's, with the provision that the parent will never know.
In that television program there was a number of 'experts' including an MP who wanted the laws changing or school's and other establishments being provided with adequate funding for sex education. Surprising though, how some of these experts could not agree on the way forward. One of the things that came out of that, was two young teenage girls who became pregnant, and discussed their own experiences. both stated that if they had they own way again, the pregnancies would not have happened "but it did".
Perhaps to add a final note, I once attended a series of lectures, and one of those lectures was taken by a person who admitted to being a lesbian, and had never really had a physical or sexual encounter with a male, had never given birth, but was educating mother's about childbirth. Which brings the subject of who these sex educator's are going to be, and the same I would imagine, would apply to the teachings of being gay?.
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