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Speakers Corner


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Israel and the Gaza strip


john bunyan

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This seems an intractable problem. The Israelis will not allow ships etc to go to Gaza as they fear smuggling of arms and rockets. Hamas responds by smuggling through tunnels from Egypt.The whole Palestinian embryo State has been seeking statehood for years but even they cannot show a united front. The Israelis continue to build in disputed land. Iran stirs it up in the background. The Israeli response to rocket attacks is disproportionate. The whole thing could get out of hand. Talks seem a waste of time as each side loathes the other. How depressing; there seems little hope for peace in our time.

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Forum Editor

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On the subject of child killing...

Both sides in this conflict have been guilty of that. Rockets fired into densely populated areas will kill whoever happens to be at the point of impact, and both sides will point a finger at the other side and say 'child killers'.

This is a conflict that is fueled by intense hatred,and although no politician is ever going to admit it, neither side cares deeply about the individuals who are killed. If they did, the rocket attacks and air strikes on civilian-populated areas would stop immediately.

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wee eddie

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I think that you could safely remove the word "deeply" from the above posting and still be accurate

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morddwyd

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"in Israeli politics you don't lose votes by killing children, as long as they are Palestinian. "

I don't very often agree with fourm member, or much press comment, but that is not bigotry but a sad, undeniable, fact.

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spuds

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As I have stated on many of these Middle East conflicts, you have to know the people, their history and their politics, and not really solely on media reports. Perhaps a long term visit to some of these countries, and getting to know the people would be a starting point for a true debate?.

It also concerns me, how some forum members constantly complain about the press and newspaper articles, and how people should not take much notice of these reports, especially highlighting certain publishers and reporters, then backtrack and use these same reports when it suits their arguments!.

I note in this mornings news, Hilary Clinton is now involved in mediation, with all parties.

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spuds

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fourm member

You are correct that I do not know the members of this forum, but one thing that I do know is there is nothing like knowing and experiencing local knowledge and experiences first hand, and not solely quoting media articles as the true facts, when the media item obviously suits the member or person possible debating skills.

Perhaps a subject that I didn't want to mention, but you seem to have brought it into this thread, is child killing. This will always happen or is likely to happen in any conflicts on all sides, where ever in the world. Yet there doesn't seem to be much mention about child deaths that occur every minute or hour of every day due to bad sanitation and poverty?.

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wee eddie

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The parallels with Ireland are legion.

It comes down to intolerant Religionists and long, long grudges/memories.

If there really was a God, he/she would sort them out.

[b]IMHO[/b] - If God exists he/she is unlikely to care whether you're Moslem, Catholic, Protestant, Sikh, Buddhist, or even a 7th Day Adventist, so long as you behave yourself.

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Forum Editor

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spuds

I don't claim to 'know' Israel well - I've been there twice. I do know some Israelis pretty well however, and I've heard their point of view explained ad nauseam.

The truth is, there are old grudges on both sides, and they go back a very long way. As with all long-running conflicts there are people on both sides who shout loud, but have no personal recollections of the decades of smouldering that go to create these outbreaks of fighting.

There will be mediation and diplomacy aplenty, and at some point there will be an uneasy cease-fire. Perhaps it will hold, perhaps it will not. Eventually however, there will be another confrontation, and the whole sorry cycle will be repeated, or so history tells us.

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Flak999

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I have not commented on this thread up until now, knowing the extremely polarised viewpoints it brings to the fore. I am of the opinion that most of what can be said about this conflict has been said ad infinitum, and that really nothing new can be achieved by just constantly rehashing the same tired old arguments.

I don't think I have ever witnessed the depths of hate bitterness and enmity that the two sides in this dispute hold for each other. The fact that this conflict has been going on ever since the Zionists founded the state of Israel in 1948 and has been continuing ever since shows just how intractable this problem is.

Whatever the rights or wrongs of the situation (and these vary depending on who you listen to) nothing will change whilst both sides continue to pass their prejudices down the generations to their children. Dreadful crimes have been committed by both sides and the guilt I believe can be equally shared.

What then is the answer? A two state solution is probably the way forward, but that requires compromise from both sides. I think the hatred runs to deep and to many lives have been and continue to be lost for this to ever come to fruition.

Will this issue still be being discussed in 68 years time?

Unfortunately I think it will.

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Forum Editor

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Flak999

"Will this issue still be being discussed in 68 years time?"

A lasting Middle East peace treaty is the glittering prize that awaits anyone strong enough and clever enough to steer negotiations between these two protagonists. That both sides would dearly love to love in peace is beyond question; that they can do so without some territorial concessions being made by Israel is in serious doubt.

At its core this is a plain old fashioned land dispute - Palestine wants more, and Israel wants no less. You only have to look at the map to see that Israel has the lion's share of the West bank. Israelis would dearly like to force Palestinians into two small designated areas in this territory, but there's no way that the Palestinians will ever allow this to happen. It's a ready-made, permanently ticking bomb, and it's what fuels the ongoing atmosphere of hatred and mistrust.

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Flak999

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Ceasefire from 1900 GMT

Israel and Hamas call ceasefire

How long do we give it?

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