We use cookies to provide you with a better experience. If you continue to use this site, we'll assume you're happy with this. Alternatively, click here to find out how to manage these cookies

hide cookie message
Contact Forum Editor

Send an email to our Forum Editor:


PLEASE NOTE: Your name is used only to let the Forum Editor know who sent the message. Both your name and email address will not be used for any other purpose.

Speakers Corner


It's free to register, to post a question or to start / join a discussion


 

How ridiuclous can you get


Kevscar1

Likes # 0

Evidently they are considering passing a law to ban teenagers carrying passengers who are not part of their family. How many thousands are still driving around texting and talking on their mobile this would be yet another unenforcable law

Like this post
Bing.alau

Likes # 0

I wonder what caused the text to go like that?

Like this post
morddwyd

Likes # 0

"parental violence instils fear into children. Parents who hit their children mistake fear for respect, and the children who learn that parents hit their offspring for every little transgression turn into deceivers; they lie their way out of trouble, and may continue to do it into adulthood."

No it doesn't, it instils respect and the rules of society.

I'm not talking about violent punishment causing injury, but the sort of discipline used in nature. A lion cub which gets a bit rough in play and nips its mother's tail may well get a cuff that will bowl them over, so will a chimp or gorilla "teenager", and there are many other examples in nature, from puppies getting nipped to lambs being butted. It is, literally, natural.

They learn to respect the other members of the peer group, and grow into normal healthy members of their society.

Please don't tell me that is what makes us separate from the animals, because at that age we are not.

As I have said before, children are like puppies, naturally mischievous, and they do need to be trained.

Like this post
spider9

Likes # 0

The problem, as always, is that people don't naturally fit into moulds.

One parent's idea of chastisement may well be a 'loving slap' on the bottom, while another's might be a full fist in the face.

ALL children need protecting from thugs and so if the loving punishment needs outlawing to save others from fear and hurt - then it must be so. No ifs, no buts.

Like this post
woodchip

Likes # 0

The Last few Posts say it all, there is a difference in chastisement and beating a child up. The last one the child remembers and does the same when grown up, hits is children or Wife, as it thinks that is the thing to do, chastisement as many forms, Lashing out as a last result says that you have failed. Also when you chastise the child it should be told why it was smacked or other

Like this post
Forum Editor

Likes # 0

morddwyd

"As I have said before, children are like puppies, naturally mischievous, and they do need to be trained."

What a perfectly ludicrous statement. A human child's intelligence outstrips that of all other animals within the first six months of its life. Inferring that because a lioness deals violently with a cub it's OK for human adults to do the same thing to their children is quite ridiculous.

Lions have no conception of self, no sense of right or wrong, no understanding of concepts, and no ability to imagine - a human child develops all of those attributes within the first 24 months of life. Children fear those who are violent to them, but the bullies who hit children interpret the fear as respect - it's a common and well-known character defect.

The one thing a child wants from a parent above all else is a sense of security and of being loved. Children want to emulate their parents, and violent behaviour will beget violent behaviour; children who are hit are more likely to become parents who hit, and on it goes, generation after generation. The way to teach a child about social rules and values is to show disapproval of transgression - it's all that is necessary. Children know that a hitting parent is one who has lost control,it breeds fear and contempt. You've made the classic mistake of confusing fear with respect.

Like this post
morddwyd

Likes # 0

I;m sorry, Ludicrous, ridiculous or classically mistaken or not, I simply don't agree

Like this post
spider9

Likes # 0

If physical punishment is the way to 'train' human beings, perhaps we should return to birching our children, followed by thumbscrews if there is still misbehaviour?

Our armed forces are always referred to as some of the most disciplined people - so, when they enlist are they subjected to physical beatings to 'learn' this discipine?

If, as some posts suggest our youngsters are now so terribly behaved, how do they become disciplined soldiers? By instilling fear of (or by) beatings?

Like this post
spuds

Likes # 0

spider9

A good point about birching, because I recall the days when birching was applied in some Borstal institutions (not sure about the thumbscrews though). It was not the case of birching, but the case of how it was administered, and by whom. The same applied I suppose to the 'cat-of-nine-tails'?.

I recall one of my neighbours and occasional friend, who was also the local 'lovable rogue', who was a frequent inmate to the local Borstal for various Robin Hood misdemeanours . It was also the same scenerio, that when a 'Black Maria' was outside his grandmas house, you knew he had escaped and was heading back home. One particular cold day 'Our Henry' arrived in the street wearing just a pair of dark gym shorts, and displaying very extensive 'punishment marks' over his back and body. It didn't take long for the neighbours and the rest of the people in the area to cause a near riot. Henry accepted the occasional 'punishment' as part and parcel of life, as did his family and friends, but on this occasion it went that little to far, mainly due to those giving the punishment in excess.

Make of that what you will, but in my day we accepted the rules of the game, and the 'naughty step' or loss of the £100 trainers reward (for the time being) as a punishment didn't come into it.

Parents or supposedly, have a lot to answer for their kid's nowadays, but the major problem is that some parents do not see this as their responsibility, but that of society on the whole. Then perhaps complain that society isn't doing enough?.

Like this post
Forum Editor

Likes # 0

spuds

"...in my day we accepted the rules of the game, and the 'naughty step' or loss of the £100 trainers reward (for the time being) as a punishment didn't come into it."

You accepted the rules because you had no say in the matter - children never do. That doesn't mean that violence has ever been the right solution though. In the past people had no choice but to accept violence as a form of punishment, and as a result society was actually more violent than today. Women were routinely beaten by men, and child cruelty was rife. Both still occur, but on nothing like the same scale.

We live in more enlightened times, and we know that hitting children is wrong. Bullying a child into submission is a coward's way of achieving a result, and it is never a solution - the bullied child harbours resentment, and is more likely to become a bullying parent.

I agree with your view that inept parents tend to see their children's behaviour as someone else's problem - they abdicate responsibility and blame schoolteachers, or society as a whole when their offspring go off the rails. The fact is, parental responsibility is sometimes difficult,as any parent knows. It's hard work at times, but hitting as a response to bad behaviour is never the answer.

Like this post
spuds

Likes # 0

FE

Perhaps we should look at this from another angle, and see the A&E Department statistics for muggings, stabbings and shootings among the the younger generations, especially for those who regard 'respect' as a part of gang membership. Most of their parent's (if either party can be found or involved) have given up on their offspring, because society and the 'do-gooders' will not allow these said parent's to be totally responsible, if they wanted to do so.

I have witnessed on many occasions, the young 4/5 year old telling their mother to FO, and the mother hasn't batted an eyelid, because I suppose she is 'training' her child or children to use the word as an everyday speaking pattern. Go to any 'sink' estate, and ask if the kids there knew the telephone number of the Police or NSPCC, because if a person raises their voice to a child nowadays, they are likely to be threatened that they will be reported.

You may obviously totally disagree with my views, but that is possibly because I am of the old hat brigade who was 'educated' to respect my elders and others, and not just myself. As I have stated earlier, I was chastised as a child, rather severely on more than one occasion. But I can truly say, that it never did me any real lasting harm or fear of my parent. In fact it brought the very opposite.

When we have a society, that as social workers who are constantly complaining about overwork and under paid, and at the same time defending their actions like the Shoesmith saga, then something must be seriously very wrong?.

Like this post

Reply to this topic

This thread has been locked.



IDG UK Sites

Android One vs Android Silver vs Google Nexus: What is the difference?

IDG UK Sites

Apple updates MacBook Pro line-up: Price cuts & spec boosts for 6 MacBook Pro models

IDG UK Sites

Long live the internet fridge: the Internet of Things is coming

IDG UK Sites

How Prometheus' colourist Juan Ignacio Cabrera gave a tense, edgy feel to Chosen