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Scotland's Vote Independence or Union?


Bing.alau
Resolved

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We have plenty of Scots who take part in this forum. I wonder how they intend to vote.

Will Scottish people in England, Northern Ireland or Wales etc., have a vote and if so how do you intend to vote? Will it depend on the address at the time of voting? As I have said before I have lots of Scottish friends but they all live on the south coast of England. (They show a tendency to get away from Scotland as far as possible).

Macscouse had better keep out of this or the LHO will hit him below the sporran.

Seriously though. Will English people living in Scotland on a permanent basis be entitled to vote?

What about all the Scottish people living abroad in such diverse places as Canada and South Africa?

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Miké

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How much of the current UK National Debt will they to take on? Presumably the new state of Scotland wouldn't be able to pay this off in a single payment, still never mind there's always the oil revenue to sequester until their share is paid!

Oh yes nearly forgot about the WW1 and WW2 debts to the USA, still in a generation or two they should be nearly out of debt.

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spider9

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Mike "Oh yes nearly forgot about the WW1 and WW2 debts to the USA, still in a generation or two they should be nearly out of debt"

Did you also forget the 'final' payments made in about 2006 to clear the same?

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Bing.alau

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Can anyone get a bet on with William Hill or any other bookies on the outcome of the vote? I don't suppose the bookies will be taking bets until they find out what the make up of the question actually is.

If it is a straight Yes or No question, then I've got a feeling in my water that most Scots will vote No.

Whatever happens I am sure we will all remain firm friends, won't we?

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Forum Editor

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I think fourm member hit the nail on the head when he said "We know it is all about what people believe not what is true. People believe that Scotland depends on the rest of the UK to finance its spending and anyone trying to present figures to disprove that will just be accused of trying to spin."

The sort of statistic that influences the 'we all finance Scotland' cohort is this:

In may 2011 the proportion of people of working age claiming benefit in Scotland was approximately 14.7%

In the same month the figure for England was 3.7%

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Woolwell

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Whatever happens I hope that after the referendum that the Barnett Formula is ended (or replaced) and that the West Lothian question would be resolved with no Scottish MP's (or Welsh or NI) able to vote on English matters.

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Miké

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Yes spider9 I realise that the UK made a final settlement to the US for their financial support during the two previous world wars, however the UK as a whole will have taken on extra debt to pay for this and Scotland should obviously pay there share of this ongoing borrowing commitment!

Still the foreign land owners who own half of Scotland already should be able to buy even more Scottish property cheaply if independence is won, as land prices will inevitably drop as a result of insufficient GDP to service this and other debts that will very quickly be incurred!

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spider9

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FE

..and, of course, the counter argument might be along the lines of " ever since Thatcher set about the destruction of Scottish industry it is obvious why those figures are as they are".

Or would the claim be that the Scots actually PREFER to be on 'benefits' rather than working (like the striving English??).

Possibly Scots might just start to feel they couldn't be any worse off if they were making all their own decisions.

Bare figures such as those can never tell the whole story - but, as you say, these things will be used to sway people.

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Forum Editor

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In the end, people will do what people have always done. They will make voting decisions based on a highly complex mixture of judgement and emotion.

The telling point is most probably the fact that opinion polls have consistently returned a 'yes' figure of around 30%. In the run up to the referendum that is undoubtedly going to change, but it will have to improve by an unprecedented amount in order to win the day.

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spider9

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FE

I certainly agree with your remark about ".. mixture of judgement and emotion".

Which is why I think that those who consistently attempt to 'put the Scots down' with implications of things like being broke without their ultra generous English neighbours, or asylum seekers flooding in, etc, will simply have the effect of making more Scots want to go it alone.

Woolwell wants to start tearing up the present agreements, even if there is a NO vote! Is the object to frighten the Scots to break free? Perhaps it's we English who have the problem, and are jealous of the possible opportunity they are getting?

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Forum Editor

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"Perhaps it's we English who have the problem,"

I'm not sure about that - at least as a generalisation. I'm sure there are plenty of English people who have a problem when it comes to contemplating Scottish issues of any kind, but lots of Scots feel the same way about England.

I'm 50% Welsh, and I meet with an adverse reaction sometimes when I talk about that. When I go to Wales to visit a brother who lives there I meet some Welsh people who can't talk about the English without getting angry.

In Northern island there are people who seem to be more fervently British than Irish.

It all harks back to historical differences, and the formation of a United kingdom that has always been subject to an undercurrent of old scores and differences. The unification of a group of small, previously independent sovereign nations is always going to be fraught with difficulties - old loyalties and grudges are there, under the surface.

I wish the Scots well, whatever their decision. I think that Scotland and the Scots have contributed enormously to British prosperity and culture down the centuries, and I very much hope they'll stay in the Union. It's going to be their decision however, and that's as it should be.

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