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Farewell Trident, hello...?


Forum Editor

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The hatchet man cometh

Is it just me wondering what on earth goes on in Nick Clegg's mind at times?

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Bing.alau

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Chronus. How do you know that our forces were sent to Afghanistan "ill equipped"? Not everything you read in the papers etc. is 100% true you know. In fact it is nowhere near true.

I am thankful that I never had to go there myself. I am all for getting out ASAP. (Maybe we will not get involved in other nations disputes again, but somehow I doubt it). But our troops were as well equipped as those of any other nation and that includes the good ol' US of A.

I also like to think our troops are better trained.

But equipment is one of those things that is for ever changing, it is up to the government to keep up, and pay up for the improvements.

There is an old saying that "You can't put a quart in to a pint pot" The opposite applies too, "You can't get a quart out of a pint pot". This country is in my opinion spending money in the wrong places, lots of us think that too. But the answer to where to spend it correctly is beyond me.

However I don't think we should be spending so much on aiding other countries. "Charity begins at home".

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Condom

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Like many people I would be classed as not knowing enough to make a defence judgement on this but what worries me is the use of them.

Even if we were attacked with nuclear weapons would any leader in their right mind give the order to wipe out another nation just because we were likely to be killed off. This is why I worry when I see so many leaders whose mind and judgement could be considered questionable.

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Algerian peter ™

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If the United Kingdom does not have an aircraft carrier, at the moment, to cruise with nuclear strike planes. That is one large obstacle in this nations defence but do they not have airbases through out the world in which they could fly to 90% of the world in around 60 minutes ( a guess ). Do they not have a submarine force, now, that is capable of delivering nuclear missiles from any sea in the world. Do they not have a ICBM system that could reach any country that may threaten the UK.

In short don't they have enough fire power to deter any aggressor?

Why not spend the money on infastructure, roads, rail and airports and upgrade the armed forces when the country is back on it's feet.

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OTT_B

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Algerian peter

Even despite my lack of detal knowledge on this, your arguments seem peculiar and malinformed.

"....does not have an aircraft carrier, at the moment, to cruise with nuclear strike planes"

In so far as I know, the UK has never had that capability.

"but do they not have airbases through out the world in which they could fly to 90% of the world in around 60 minutes"

I can't think of many (or any?) countries that do. The size of attack-jet fleet that you'd need, not to mention the amount of warheads required to stock the aircraft, would be enormous.

"Do they not have a submarine force, now, that is capable of delivering nuclear missiles from any sea in the world"

And herein is the problem. The "fleet" (if you can call 4 submarines a fleet) is old. very old. They are expensive to run, require expensive maintenance and would be expensive to refit to new technology to maintain the needed edge in combat, if indeed that's even possible given the age of the boats' frames.

"Do they not have a ICBM system that could reach any country that may threaten the UK."

Short answer? No.

"In short don't they have enough fire power to deter any aggressor?"

This isn't just about firepower. It's about battlefield theatre, deterring an enemy, posturing and politicking.

"Why not spend the money on infastructure, roads, rail and airports and upgrade the armed forces when the country is back on it's feet."

Good question.....

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KRONOS the First

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Bing.alau

Please do not make the assumption that I get all my information from the newspapers. I happen to be an ex Royal Marine and still have close ties with the regiment and I can tell you that the stories in the newspapers were,perhaps not quite as detailed as they might have been. I can assure you there were serious issues with equipment in both the countries I mentioned. Shortages of even basic kit for the climate were a serious issue.

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kad60

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The issues around defence expenditure and deterrent may appear intractable,the cost across the board is increasing daily and we are in no position to be able to afford to spend on the changes necessary to bring our strategic defences up to date.

One solution...(just taking cover before the bullets fly)...Europe,an integrated European defence force.

Not something i would like but in the present economic circumstances a possibility.

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Bing.alau

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Chronus. Nice to meet you, as I too am an ex-Royal Marine. We obviously have different views which is probably a good thing.

I still meet up with people who have served in Afghanistan and also am in touch with some lads who are there right now. They are from the RMR Merseyside and some of them have been on three or more tours, as they tend to call them now. I have never heard any of them mentioning inferior or a lack of equipment.

I am also in touch with serving members in Poole who have no complaints about equipment.

When I served our stuff was very inferior to the stuff they use now of course but I don't remember any one complaining to the press about it. Then as now we got on with it. The people who are complaining most are the media. Let's face it they are always in to the complaining business in a big way.

Oh sorry, I forgot about the complaint I always had. I wasn't paid enough,

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Woolwell

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There has been some misinformation in these posts. I'm not going to go into specific detail as it dosen't greatly matter.

However as far as I am aware there hasn't been a significant change in Lib Dem stance. The Trident review was previously overseen by Nick Harvey May 2012 report from Nick Harvey who is against Trident. Nick Harvey has been moved because he reportedly disagreed with Clegg about Iran.

What appears to be worrying is that design contracts have been signed, and will almost certainly involve a cost, but the final decision to proceed hasn't been made. We could be in the position of having spent a lot of wasted money if Trident replacement does not go ahead.

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flycatcher1

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Condom I think that you are wrong about Nuclear Weapons. A Deterrent is exactly what it says on the tin. If you have no intention of ever putting it into action it is a waste of time. I spent some of my Service career in the V-Force and I can assure you that, if ordered, we would gone to war. It must be remembered that we would only react if another country had actually dropped a Nuclear Weapon on us or one of our Allies.

We obviously thought a lot about what we might have to do but I cannot remember any negative attitudes. Even after all those years I suppose that I must respect some Secrecy but I will say that we were a little concerned when we were given National Targets because the chance of us going alone was NIL.

Before the end of the Cold War, courtesy of Mrs Thatcher, I was able to drive over a bridge in a capital city the details of which I was very familiar with.

My fervent hope is that Nuclear weapons are never used, anywhere, but you cannot be absolutely sure - or can you.

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morddwyd

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"We could be in the position of having spent a lot of wasted money if Trident replacement does not go ahead."

So what else is new? (TSR2, Nimrod AEW3, Nimrod MRA4)

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