It's free to register, to post a question or to start / join a discussion
What a wonderful world we are creating
Likes # 1
Posted September 12, 2012 at 7:55AM
Just read about this enter link description here and can't help but think that we helped create this state of affairs in Libya.
A crowd of "supposedly" peaceful Muslims attacking innocent people in "defence" of their Prophet Mohammed, best part is that they shout about defending him then break nearly every law they are supposed to respect.
Have we just finished up with a state full of weak politicians who are just letting the extremists take control because if so then we have gone from the frying pan into the fire.
Another place enter link description here where muslin extremists are taking over, and I just wonder what will happen in Syria after all this carnage that is happening finishes, will that just become a state full of extremists because they have the guns.
Likes # 0
Posted September 13, 2012 at 8:39AM
While I am not, in the main, a conspiracy theorist, I do believe there is a bit more to this attack than at first appears.
It was very well organised, and specific areas seem to have been targeted, rather than just a mindless mob running riot.
Likes # 0
Posted September 13, 2012 at 10:29AM
"So, woody, there is no basis for saying 'the mob running the country in their place are just as bad'"
I put it as a question. Here is another - is the area a safer better place today?
Likes # 0
Posted September 13, 2012 at 10:43AM
As is often the case with these things, the unrest appears to be spreading. Hundreds of Yemeni demonstrators stormed the U.S. embassy in Sanaa today, according to Reuters.
Likes # 0
Posted September 13, 2012 at 10:54AM
"is the area a safer better place today?"
A safer place? That depends on how you define 'safe'. It's certainly safer in terms of ordinary people being able to express themselves without fear of being whisked away, never to be seen again. It's certainly not safer in terms of national security - the authorities are having a difficult time setting up a national police force that will function properly, and an equally difficult time disarming the militia. Once people have become used to carrying guns it isn't easy to get them to stop.
Establishing a democracy from a standing start is never going to be easy, or fast.
Likes # 0
Posted September 13, 2012 at 3:38PM
"It's certainly safer in terms of ordinary people being able to express themselves without fear of being whisked away" Are you kidding - the killing was because someone made a film!!
"but it is freer" They are certainly free to cause mayhem. It appears they need someone who will use the same amout of force as they use to keep them under control.Soft touch or good manners will not control them.
Likes # 0
Posted September 22, 2012 at 10:24AM
fourm member the problem is that it's normally the extremist who has the gun and these people do not want to give up that power because they know without those guns they are nothing.
Likes # 0
Posted September 22, 2012 at 2:18PM
It never ceases to amaze me how thousands of apparently normal individuals can get themselves worked up into a frenzy over somebody either saying, writing or making a film about a fictitious religious deity.
We have witnessed the latest manifestation of this mass hysteria playing itself out over the news media this week, because a totally unremarkable film has been made apparently criticising some part of the Islamic faith!
Because of this tawdry little film, the American ambassador to Libya has been murdered and the embassies of various western countries sacked and burnt down. Now I am an atheist, all religious belief is nonsense as far as I am concerned. But I fail to understand how somebody who does believe in one of the various religious deity's feels that they can forward the cause of their particular belief by:
A) Murdering foreigners sent to help them!
B) Murdering each other!
C) Burning and destroying their own neighbourhoods!
Is it because they are so insecure in their particular belief that they feel threatened by any criticism of it? Is it (as I believe) that the people who commit these acts are just basically unsophisticated uneducated barbarians who still live their lives on a medieval level?
Or is there something more nuanced at work here? I must contrast the scenes we are witnessing from various third world locations to the amusing reaction garnered by the release of the film "Monty pythons life of Brian" when it was released. Now there was some criticism from various worthies of the Christian church, I well remember the debate between the pythons and Malcolm Muggeridge and Mervyn Stockwood the then Bishop of Southwark regarding the blasphemy of the Christian faith by the film.
Strangely however, there were not riots in the streets following the films release no embassy's burnt down, no ambassadors murdered. Why is that I wonder? Does this say more about our western sophistication and understanding that "sticks and stones may break my bones, but names can never hurt me"? Or that in our heart of hearts we know that religion is all nonsense, so there's no point getting excited about such perceived slights?
There's an interesting interview with Salman Rushdie here regarding how he feels that in the current hysterical climate the Satanic verses would never be published today, and what a worrying threat for free speech that is.
Likes # 0
Posted September 22, 2012 at 3:20PM
Flak999 - Mohammed was not a fictitious character. Many Muslims believe that he must be revered (note must not should) and say "praise be upon him" whenever his name is mentioned. Any depiction/slight of him is regarded as an attack on Islam which is a religion of subservience. As such it remains rooted in the past (not a word of the Quran may be altered and is not normally translated) and it only needs a few fanatic Muslim leaders to whip up a mob. Most will not have seen the film or know who it has been produced by or know that it is not supported by the vast majority in the West but they will respond. No to do so may result in their death. The Blasphemy Law in Pakistan forbids the defamation of the Quran or Mohammed and the penalty is death.
As you rightly state it is different in the West. Some Christians were upset by the Life of Brian but Christians are generally more pacifist (turn the other cheek) and are not normally militant. There are of course fundamental Christians who can be militant especially in parts of USA.
What is currently worrying a lot of Christians in this country is the growing militant secularism and feeling that due to political correctness and fear of retaliation it is wrong to criticise other religions but Christianity is fair game. We used to live in a fairly tolerant country but that seems to be changing.
Likes # 0
Posted September 22, 2012 at 3:47PM
It has taken a long time and many thousands of deaths for the 'christian' west to achieve that level of freedom and tolerance in respect to criticism of their beliefs.
That level of hysteria and murderous rage as presently expressed globally is the same as that which fuelled the witchunts and crusades with a major difference in being at that time literate society was few and far between so the scale was less.
Today the world is awash with books and instant data via the WWW,so i do not think they are unsophisticated or barbarian but misguided and behoven to a literalist interpretation that denies room for doubt and an alternative point of view.
"god" and gun go hand in hand,one justifies the other in pursuit of their bloody utopia.
Likes # 0
Posted September 22, 2012 at 3:49PM
Whether or not somebody called Mohammed existed is I think not the question here. It is whether or not he was the last messenger of the God of Islam. I would say yes, there were probably plenty of people called Mohammed (there still are!) but as to the last bit (being the last messenger of God) I think not!
But that's really the problem isn't it? All of this religious zealotry relies on one thing, blind faith! If your parents brought you up from a child to believe that fairies live at the bottom of the garden you would probably believe it, it's called indoctrination.
We overcome that in all other areas with education, but when it comes to religion for some reason sense, reason and education go out the window, why is that?
Reply to this topic
This thread has been locked.