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'Just another gun massacre...'


Quickbeam
Resolved

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Was how it is being talked about on the TV this morning, but will it create a serious gun control debate in America?

NO, I thought not. Their precious right to bear arms constitution must be guarded at all cost.

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Flak999

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spuds

Those recalls were a knee jerk reaction by the government, and were not very well thought out, and I think recent UK incidents proves this!.

I think it was a knee jerk reaction, most of the legally held firearms in the UK were owned by members of shooting clubs and never caused any problem. The two incidents with Ryan and Hamilton were used as an excuse to deprive a lot of people of their legitimate hobby and also put a lot of small gunsmiths out of business.

As has been proved since the ban it has not stopped criminals getting hold of illegal firearms and it did not stop the madman Derrick Bird from embarking on his killing spree.

You cannot legislate against a maniac!

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spuds

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Flak999

Totally agree.

And it just doesn't cover firearms!.

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morddwyd

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"Certainly not suggesting you are lying!"

If you suggest something should be taken with a pinch of salt the generally accepted meaning is that you doubt the veracity of the statement.

If you suspect that the statement may not be truthful, then you obviously must think it is untruthful, i.e. it is a lie.

"But a bunch of guys, even without alcohol are very likely to display bravado to impress their mates,"

Your mates might, mine don't, and if they do we are not mates for long. No reason for them to try and impress anybody, nobody there to impress anyway, we all knew each other pretty well, like I said, all family men in their fifties or so, all serving or ex-service, just making quiet conversation sat on the porch while making sure that the sun went down safely.

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carver

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fourm member now you are adding all gun homicide into the equation but a few or a lot of those in America could be legal shootings, and that old "As the statistics clearly demonstrate" saying is such a load of horse manure it always comes out when some one is floundering.

You can get statistics to say what ever you want if you are prepared to mess with them, and I'm sorry to say that the crazy will always mess up the statistics.

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oresome

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I remember listening to some Americans debating gun control (not on TV, I was with them) and the statement that got widest support was "Well, if they want my gun they can come and get it, but it will have an empty magazine and a smoking barrel"

morddwyd,

I'm taking a pinch of salt to the statement expressed by your drinking partners.

I don't doubt you was there and that they said it and that there was a consenus of opinion at that instant.

But did they really mean what they said?

I think not and there was an element of bravado entering into it and perhaps we'll have to agree to disagree on that. After all I wasn't there and don't know you or your friends but suspect they are normal decent people.

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bremner

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Oresome

I have spent a lot of time in the US and have lost count of the number of times I have heard that said. It the de rigueur response by anyone who objects to gun control.

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Forum Editor

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Charlton Heston famously said that 'they (gun law reformers) will have to take my Winchester rifle from my cold dead hands'.

American gun collectors like making that kind of statement - when you're there you hear lots of that kind of thing. The fact is, sooner or later gun controls will tighten, and then tighten some more, until eventually there will be no way an average American Joe can walk out of a gun store with a lethal weapon. It will come, but not for a good while yet.

I find a lot to like in America and in Americans, but this obsession with the right to bear arms isn't part of that. It comes from the history of the making of the nation, and it's time it was consigned to history.

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Aitchbee

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I would want President Obama ...(along with bringing his troops back home from distant lands), to at least send out some sort of a message (like a refund on your guns and ammunition to gun-owners in his home town)... that might get the ball rolling...d'you remember that ' a small step for man ' speech from Neil Armstrong.

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Forum Editor

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Aitchbee

"I would want President Obama ...(along with bringing his troops back home from distant lands), to at least send out some sort of a message (like a refund on your guns and ammunition to gun-owners in his home town)..."

A few seconds thought should have sufficed to tell you that such a scheme would be totally impracticable. Who is to pay for all these refunds, and why on earth do you believe that people in one town would hand in their guns because the President offered them a refund? The "some sort of a message" it would send out is that the President has lost his marbles.

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Chegs ®™

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Derrick Bird's guns were totally legally owned and he'd owned the weapons for a number of years.There was talk of introducing Drs into the gun licence application process after his murderous killing spree,but I very much doubt this would have prevented him killing 12 people as when I spoke to him a few days before he was the same as he'd been for the fourteen years I'd known him so if a Dr had been asked to create a report on his mental state this would've been a positive report that he was mentally fit to hold a licence.Much like a vehicles MOT certificate,this proves that on the day tested,the vehicle was fit for purpose but 6mths down the road & the MOT proves nothing.

I know of an american friend & a german friend of mine that fell out as the german said to the american that the USA should tighten up gun controls,they were good friends and haven't spoken to one another since.

I've used guns whilst working on a farm,to shoot rabbits to feed my dogs but when I left the job I also left behind the need to use guns and haven't handled a weapon for over 20 years.I have another friend who came back from a holiday in the USA and incessantly brags about how he'd fired umpteen different guns,and he now visits the same friends in the USA simply because they own so many guns.

Didn't the UK have a gun amnesty where weapons could be handed in at police stations without fear of prosecution if it was an illegal weapon? I have no idea of its success/failure rate or even if it actually resulted in any weapons being handed in(but I'm sure someone will find the figure)I wonder how many americans would hand in any weapons if a similar scheme was run over in the USA.

I've been threatened with a shotgun(it was unloaded,but I didnt know this at the time)and it is a terrifying experience.The rest of the people in the room were in on the "joke" but I didnt see anything funny about it then,or now many years later.

No matter what laws were created to restrict firearm usage,these terrible crimes will still occur.The only way to stop them occuring would be to turn back time to when firearms didn't exist and that just isn't possible,so the human race will just have to carry on and steel itself for these occasional tragedies.

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