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Budget Thoughts


Bingalau
Resolved

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A few years ago this forum would have a bit of a ding dong going about the latest budget. So far today Nothing. So I will put my halfpenny worth in. Is it right that us poor pensioners are punished? After all, most of us are the ones who kept this country going through the bad times and some of us even through the last war. (anticipating Brumas, I wasn't in the Boer war or the first World war).

What annoys me is that young 14 and 15 year old girls can still purposely have a child so that they can live off the state for free. Surely something could and should be done to stop this shameful practice.

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Forum Editor

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roy

"..it is not so much not appreciating that cuts are necessary as resenting the insult to my intelligence by saying that a change in pensioners' personal allowances which will raise in excess of 1 billion pounds is not in reality a pension cut."

Your reaction is understandable, and you're not alone by a very long chalk. I wouldn't mind betting that the Chancellor now realises that a mistake has been made - he's upset the people who traditionally vote in large numbers.

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Snec

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FE

I accept what you say regarding a Chancellor using information and advice of Civil Servants.The trouble is I believe that to be part of the problem. You seem to believe these people are 'extremely experienced and expert economists.' I would have thought that history proves them to be anything but.

Anyone who has attended budget meetings will know, as I am sure you do, that so much in-house wrangling goes on that the whole thing often descends into a sort of in-house competition to grab a larger chunk of whatever is available. Nobody ever achieves what they set out to achieve but at least, like it or lump it, everyone finishes up singing to the same hymn sheet. Governments don't. Even this time the Chancellor's growth forecast is at a variance with the OBR. Who is right? If he decided to ignore the OBR you have to wonder from just where did he get the figures he used or, more likely, did he just use his figures for better effect.

You mention data supplied by HMRC. The examples I am going to give here are at operative level, although some of them have claimed to be senior managers, but in any case they are, presumably, ultimately employed by the experts to which you refer.

HMRC, along with the DWP, is a shambles. Since retiring fully in December 2010 these two departments can't even agree with each other about my simple affairs and I haven't agreed with either of them. I have only recently paid money to HMRC that they insisted I did not owe. I understand basic maths, I promise you HMRC and DWP operatives do not.

I have not collected a single benefit in my life so why did the DWP start paying me a small sum on top of my State Pension money when I turned sixty-five? I knew that I was not due this money. They continued to pay even after I told them to stop. After eight months they did stop and put their Debt Collection people on to me to snatch back what had been paid.

Even if a Chancellor could organise a budget that might work, the people he relies on will let him down, and of course there are hundreds of departments employing thousands of these people - Public Sector workers, doncha know!

Oh, and yes, back to where you started: my personal opinion of politicians, and that's all politicians, is probably just what you imagine it is.

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badgery

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roy

Your post hit the nail on the head.

It is an insult to people's intelligence to now be making claims that these changes will not raise tax for many pensioners - and wheeling out the '"You're getting a £5.30 increase in your pension" is downright devious. As you say it had nothing to do with this Budget and was the result of a previousl mechanism for updating.

As FE said, I'm sure Gideon is regretting it already, having upset so many party supporters in one fell swoop..

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Input Overload

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'There has been a steady decline in morals over the last thirty/forty/fifty years. When I was a lad of sixteen or seventeen if I had put my hand on a girls knee I would have been given short shrift and I knew it'

Now it's 40 - 50 years, & to be blunt why would you be putting your hands on a girls knee & getting a sharp No?

If you take that scenario to it's final conclusion - It's OK for red blooded males to try it on as long as girls were good & said no? But if she didn't say No would she in your words have got laid? Or engaged in some sort of play? Perhaps your morals are somewhat one sided?

I personally think young people are at least as responsible as they were years ago, & I certainly don't know any fifteen year olds who have gotten pregnant to get a house.

And in the words of a professional who actually deals with such things on a daily basis I have just spoke to regarding getting a house by getting pregnant, 'That just does not happen' 'Things are not handed to you on a plate'

The reason I have taken issue with this is it was your main point in your opening remark & is simply just not true - You really need to look elsewhere for the ills of the world.

'14 and 15 year old girls can still purposely have a child so that they can live off the state for free' - Simply untrue.

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Quickbeam

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'Things are not handed to you on a plate'

No, they have to work very hard putting their case forward for an abode of they're own. With the support of parents and family they tell a tale of woe to the social services of how their parents will put them on the street, and how the violent father always be pestering the mother and how un-supportive the extended family is etc, etc. Then a year later she has the father in house with another little sprog on the way all hunky dory happy families supporting each other, the elder mother baby sitting goes to the pub 5 nights a week and for the tedious chore of being taxied to the social and back for their pittance of a benefits payout.

'Things are not handed to you on a plate' Yeah, right...

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badgery

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Quickbeam

Are you a scriptwriter for Eastenders or Shameless, or suchlike? If not, maybe you could apply!

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Quickbeam

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'14 and 15 year old girls can still purposely have a child so that they can live off the state for free' - Simply untrue.

We've come through the dark ages where single mothers would secretly leave an unwanted bastard child to the wolves in the forest to avoid social shame and financial burden. The Victorian era where a young single mother was put in the workhouse, child adopted and young mother ostracised. Arrived at the post WW2 era where you were only ostracised, labelled a slapper and child adopted of course. In some cases the mother was conveniently hidden away in a loony asylum or nunnery for a couple of decades.

Then comes the '60s, social and sexual liberation, which in turn gives us the pill, which in turn gives us the freedom to do what comes natural without the social disgrace and terrible consequences suffered by the resultant b... sorry unplanned children.

So, with the pill and knowledge of family planning, why are we plagued with mothers too young to have the ability, both mentally and financially to support a child?

There is no reason in this day, with the history of the previous generations trials and tribulations with illegitimate births, for any young girl to have accidental children, which cause a financial burden to the state (via my tax bill).

Simply untrue. Is it really...?

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Quickbeam

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badgery

Open your eyes, it's all around us!

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Aitchbee

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When I take the bus, young women with prams seem to 'take over' the lower decks...some infirm elderly people have to 'move on up' the bus....

Also, I just heard in sunny southside of Glasgow, "The Pensioners' Bus" AKA The Number 2, is being taken off, at the end of April, (Firstbus), as it's 'not paying it's way' 'cos the OAP's with free bus passes don't pay cash...which should further clog up the other buses the pensioners will have to use.

I'm still a 'spring-chicken' so I don't mind.

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Grey Goo

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The biggest threat to pensions comes not from State Pension tinkering but from Quantitative easing. Printing virtual money is destroying returns and driving down annuity rates.

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