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At last, a PM who talks sense


Al94

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I get more impressed by David Cameron as time goes by, this was a realistic and courageous speech http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-16224394

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chub_tor

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alan14 your quantum leap shows me that you just do not understand my argument. It is the old time classic "Woolworths are red buildings thus all red buildings are Woolworths."

My original post was to take issue with fourm member's comment - If a man leads a moral life, repects other human beings and all living creatures and tries to benefit the community he is not behaving like a Christian. and I say that is exactly what he is doing whether he realises it or not.

Christians by definition are followers of Jesus Christ who (whether he was the Son of God or was a fictionalised person) has always been described as a man who led a moral life etc.etc.) and anyone who lives according to that same code is behaving like a Christian

But that same person following that same moral life is also behaving like a Muslim, a Hindu, a Buddhist and just about every other religion you can think of. Good morals are not exclusive to any single religion but I maintain that you cannot exclude Christians as fourm member has done.

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badgery

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chub_tor "and I say that is exactly what he is doing whether he realises it or not"

So, if we consider a man (or woman, of course) walking around leading his moral life, as described, then he is 'behaving like a Christian'.

But what about the case if he lived BC, and Christianity hadn't been 'invented'. Is he still acting like something not yet discovered? Ridiculous, I'm afraid.

fm's original statement was perfectly clear (to me, anyway) and perfectly correct.

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Forum Editor

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"Christians by definition are followers of Jesus Christ who (whether he was the Son of God or was a fictionalised person) has always been described as a man who led a moral life etc.etc.) and anyone who lives according to that same code is behaving like a Christian"

That, with all due respect, is absolute nonsense.

People who live moral lives are doing just that - they aren't behaving 'like' any religious group. Some of the people may have Christian beliefs, and those beliefs may partly motivate their behaviour, but that doesn't entitle you to claim that all moral people are behaving like Christians. Doing so sends the message that in your opinion Christians have some kind of inherent claim on morality, as if there were no moral people before Christ,and that's quite obviously ridiculous.

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Forum Editor

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I came in at the end of this thread, and I hadn't read all the other posts when I made my contribution.

I've done that now, and realised that others had already said more or less the same as me. My apologies for the repetition.

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chub_tor

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F.E.

but that doesn't entitle you to claim that all moral people are behaving like Christians. Yes it does, that is exactly how true Christians behave, and it is also how true believers behave in all of the leading religions of the world.

sends the message that in your opinion Christians have some kind of inherent claim on morality, No it doesn't, I have never claimed that.

But I do agree with your final point as if there were no moral people before Christ,and that's quite obviously ridiculous.

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morddwyd

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"People who live moral lives are doing just that - they aren't behaving 'like' any religious group. "

But they are, not consciously, nor deliberately, nut they are.

Looking at opposite aspects, the Christian Provisional ITA behaved just like Islamic fundamentalists do today, trying to bring about political change by using religion fuelled violence.

Left wing Stalin behaved just like right wing Hitler, and ne followed many of the precepts of Nazi ism.

Don;t think anyone would regard him as a Nazi though, or the Islamists as Catholics!

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Forum Editor

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chub_tor

"but that doesn't entitle you to claim that all moral people are behaving like Christians. Yes it does, that is exactly how true Christians behave, and it is also how true believers behave in all of the leading religions of the world".

Ah, I see, so all moral people are actually behaving like Buddhists,and Muslims, Hindus and Jews and Sikhs,as well as Christians?

Methinks you're trying to wriggle - claiming that you didn't mean what you so plainly did mean. " ....if I live a moral life and respect other human beings then I am behaving like a Christian - that is a follower of the Christ."

That seems clear enough to me. It's wrong, but it's clear. There's no need to retreat into fudging the issue. Moral people don't necessarily behave 'like' any religious group, as I, and others have already pointed out. You'll probably continue your defence, but it doesn't wash with me.

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chub_tor

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F.E. I am not trying to wriggle out of anything that I said. Maybe when I said " ....if I live a moral life and respect other human beings then I am behaving like a Christian - that is a follower of the Christ." I could have added I am also behaving like a follower of Mohammed or Buddha or any other leader that has shown their followers a moral code, but I was trying to specifically refute fourm member's original statement where he only mentioned Christianity.

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Aitchbee

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I limit my sensible talk to the wider public. My non-sensible talk is available on this great website, for discussion...or not.

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badgery

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"Conservatives think there is political advantage in 'doing God'"

Known in the trade as doing a Blair, I believe.

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