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Speakers Corner


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SOD 'EM!


Quickbeam

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I think in the simplest terms, that's what he's saying between the lines.

Cammeron's handbag speech...

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anskyber

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I thank 'plate techtonics' for THE ENGLISH CHANNEL

Actually it was the huge release of flood water, not plate movement, if we are to be accurate.

Cameron was undoubtedly right to exercise the veto on the issue of the financial tax. The effect would have been uneven and to our detriment as a nation.

It is unfortunate to say the least that the whole issue has been shrouded in jingoistic nonsense about bulldog spirit and a cry for yesteryear.If it was not such a serious matter the whole matter would be comical. I say this as neither a supporter or a detractor of the EU. So much of what has been said here and how it has been reported is very tribal in nature and misses the whole point about the EU.

It is not necessary to be a euro sceptic to support the case against the financial tax any more than it is to be a traitor see the EU as overall the right route for the UK and agree closer financial controls.

Cutting loose seems attractive to those who are perhaps frightened of the EU. It is hard to miss the point that even with the "sovereignty" we all talk about we are in a world economy which can and will influence our destiny even if we do not like it. we need partners and like any partnership/marriage to gain you also have to give up a bit of freedom.

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badgery

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anskyber

I'm with you on that.

To me the difficulty is that people say things like "Most general public want us out", yet, I suspect if you really quizzed people on what the EU actually is, or does, it might be less black and white.

To my mind there are such polarised views from a variety of 'experts' that it is hard to know who to believe.

I had no great love of Maggie's premiership, but, although she hated the EU, she never just left the negotiating table - wanting to remain an influential 'thorn', perhaps?

We have to sincerely believe Cameron knows what he's doing... or we definitely will 'all be in it together'!

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Aitchbee

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anskyber - I know the economic situation is serious and the future is uncertain.

Mr Cameron has made a decision.

We will all have to wait and see what happens.

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Al94

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Poor Nick Clegg, doesn't know which way to turn, his days must be numbered!

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natdoor

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badgery

The Observer reported that 42% of Britains had a positive view of the EU and 39% a negative view with the remainder undecided. These figures are attributed to the European Commission, so some would suspect that they are biassed. However, if there were a referendum I suspect that with the stance of the press and the money available for an out campaign these figures would easily be reversed, much as happened with the proportional voting referendum.

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Aitchbee

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A reversal of that newspaper's figures would not make much difference. 39 almost equals 42. The 19% sitting on the fence, at the moment, might make a difference.

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Quickbeam

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Today's daily Express would have me believe that 99% of Britain would leave today if the choice was there.

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Bingalau

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A referendum would be fair and work, and we would be out if the question was worded simply as "Do you wish to come out of the European Union, "Yes" or "No" ?"

But from my experience of referendums in this country they are worded in such a way as to give no alternatives other than what the authorities want.

By the way my only experience of referendums was the one we were asked about entry in to the common market. At that time I thought we should have been asked did we want to be in the European Union. We could have then gone in or stayed out completely.

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badgery

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Bingalau "But from my experience of referendums in this country.."

Which actual ones? And what wording was used?

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anskyber

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Referendum have a similar whiff to proportional representation, it all sounds good but does it lead to good government and strong decisions.

On the whole PR and by implication referendum tend to dilute arguments and make the issues yes/no particularly if the wording is set in a way which discourages balancing issues.

I tend to the view that unless there is major constitutional change referendum should be avoided since it encourages weak government. The advantage of our current least worst system is that it tends to encourage stronger government. Like it or not that is what Thatcher did and her governments were judged on the overall performance at general elections.

I think setting aside all the posturing, no political party would seriously take us out of the EU which is why all Tory leaders have the delicate balancing act. Not a great position to be in travelling the world trying to persuade investment in the UK if we are outside one of the biggest markets in the EU>

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