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Red Arrow crashes at Bournemouth Air Festival


TopCat®
Resolved

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Description of events at plane crash More news later on condition of pilot, etc. TC.

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morddwyd

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"Let's not have any further speculation on the possible cause of this accident. "

I think you're being a bit restrictive here FE.

While there should be no public speculation about actionable causes, e.g. technical failure, servicing or pilot error etc. nor idle sensationalist speculation, there will be speculation by knowledgeable people with some background, going on in crew rooms and other places all over the country, including, if experience is anything to go by, among the pilot's family and friends.

For instance, the footage I saw showed that the aircraft was "making smoke" all the way down to the ground. That would indicate to a lot of people on this forum that the engine was still "turning and burning" since the smoke depends on hot (400 deg+) exhaust gases.

That is not speculation, but informed opinion, though still just opinion, at long range and with no direct knowledge of th event.

The speculation you get here, on this and many other subjects, is often more informed than that which appears in the press!

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morddwyd

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Suggesting the the Red Arrow displays are indicative of the deterrent effect of the Royal Air Force is like suggesting that the Trooping of the Colour is indicative of the Guards fighting qualities.

Both gained their reputations elsewhere, though such displays are based in the same traditions.

One of the problems in the early days of the war (long before the Battle) was that senior air commanders' insistence on tight formation flying, so much a part of pre-war Hendon displays, meant that pilots were so obsessed with keeping station that they frequently failed to see the enemy early enough. There are still those who regard tight formation flying as a good test of a pilot's ability. The ability to return from combat mission is a better one!

As regards a deterrent effect, a good display pilot putting his beast through her paces is far better.

Who can forget the early displays of the Hunter, Lightning and Vulcan?

When St Mawgan was still doing flying displays, there were two party tricks.

Half way through the afternoon a Shackleton would land from a routine Soviet navy surveillance operation. As was always announced, that aircraft had taken off the previous afternoon.

Even the most junior naval attaché could work out that any subs could be picked up, or tracked, a hell of a long way out.

Around the same time a Shackleton fly past would be scheduled in the prgtamme. The grey old lady would appear at the airfield boundary with one engine stopped. As it reached the runway threshold another engine would stop. Half way along the runway a third engine would be stopped and she would climb away on one (OK. so she struggled a bit!).

The gasps from other aviators and mariners who had not seen this before was a source of great pride .

Much greater deterrent effect than than a massed fly by (though I did once see twelve Shackletons scramble during an exercise, and I must admit it was pretty impressive. I was aboard one of them, in the days when they used to carry their own groundcrew to wherever they were going.)

The Reds in full fig are a fantastic sight, but about the RAF for real they are not, not now, not ever.

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Forum Editor

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Pine Man

I know, but I was trying to make a general point - that everything can't come down to whether or not all military expenditure must only be for fighting kit.

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morddwyd

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"would you prefer all military bands to be abolished, all regimental and mess dinners to be discontinued, military parades banned,ceremonial uniforms to be ditched,and any other form of military expenditure to be stopped, unless it is for fighting kit?"

My point was not about what I prefer, but what this bloke's mother would prefer.

If you asked her she'd probably say yes, because such traditions don't mean so much to a lot of people.

All military bandsmen have a war role, normally as stretcher bearers.

Regimental and mess dinners are self financing, and at one time I could have produced the mess bills to support this.

Military parades fulfil an important role of raising morale and improving recruitment and donations to service charities.

No I would not like to see ceremonial uniforms banned, and much other military expenditure has a valuable morale boosting and training effect, and, just for the record, I would not wish to see the Red Arrows banned either.

Like you, I am just trying to make a general point, that there are two sides to the argument.

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Aitchbee

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This has not imbued me with any confidence regarding a holiday involving air travel next year.

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Forum Editor

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morddwyd

"Military parades fulfil an important role of raising morale and improving recruitment and donations to service charities."

And precision flying displays don't?

Of course there are two sides to every argument - it wouldn't be an argument if there weren't - and I understand that you were highlighting another point of view. If the Red Arrows were to be disbanded tomorrow I doubt that it would affect expenditure on fighting kit in any way, so we're really debating a non-issue.

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Paddy

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What a pathetic shower of wingers we have on here. Most have never served in HM armed forces, others may have but do not have a clue about the Royal Air Force, You have the good fotune to live in a wonderful country, protected by the very best armed forces in the world, they have managed to carry out their duties of protecting you and this country for hundreds of years, without the help!! and advice from the likes of you. Either step up to the plate and sign on or retire to a corner in your SAFE home and say a prayer of thanks for some of the worlds finest. And the answer to your next question is. Yes I served in the Royal Air Force for 12 years as an aircraft engineer.

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Pine Man

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Nice one Paddy. Spoken from the heart - not the brain;-)

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onthelimit1

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Paddy - in that case you may have fixed stuff I flew during my 30 yrs service!

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morddwyd

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Fixed stuff? Fixed stuff?

Are you referring to the white hot technology and the dedicated application of skill of hand and razor sharp expertise ("Tap lightly with a 14lb sledge" - direct quote from an armourers' maintenance manual!) which we invariably applied without complaint to the highly complex engineering masterpieces which the aircrew kept breaking?

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