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Speakers Corner


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Scottish election and SNP win


TopCat®
Resolved

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I see that the SNP have won 69 seats and thus gained an overall majority in the Scottish Parliamentary election. Gaining this majority now means he has enough Holyrood votes to hold an independence referendum. Do you think that Alex Salmond, when elected the First Minister of Scotland, will now strive to achieve his long-held wish?

Secondly, what in your opinion would separation mean to the rest of us in Britain? TC.

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spider9

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fourm member

As was clearly shown, by the Heath, and later Thatcher, governments way back in 1975, figures can be manipulated to produce whatever the 'provider' deems is in their own interest.

As the current provider is also the UK (English?) government, then are Scots to take everything they say at face value? I also get the feeling that Scots are starting to see the past truths about their financial treatment by England.

I confess that at the height of the oil finds I lived in England and never realised just how the Scots were being treated, under McCone. But information is much easier to come by nowadays, and I doubt the same duplicitous tactics could survive again.

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morddwyd

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"No-one, it seems, can produce numbers showing the Scotland would be better off as an independent country."

Now you're talking absolute rot.

No-one is seriously suggesting that Scotland would be better off as an independent country. It wouldn't.

The speculation is simply about whether Scotland would prefer to be an independent country.

It is difficult for those of us brought up in the days of empire, and resulting prosperity, to understand, but there are those who, like the Indians, Maltese, Pakistanis and many others, who would prefer self determination to prosperity.

The English should begin to take such aspirations more seriously than concerns about student fees and summer time.

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TopCat®

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Following on from what has turned out to be a truly fascinating debate, for which I thank all contributors, I've finally found this recent explanatory article click here by the BBC's political reporter for Scotland, Alan Black.

Reading this has given me a much greater insight into the Scottish 'position' and I hope it will be of help for others as well. TC.

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Monoux

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fourm member

Why are you continuing to speculate, after all you told us all quite categorically in your post at 7:58 on May 6 that

" There's no need to speculate about what separation would mean because it is not going to happen."

Or are you just arguing for the sake of it ?

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morddwyd

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"You appear not to be reading the thread because a number of people are saying just that. And the SNP website certainly says that."

When I said "seriously" I meant serious debate, not the idealistic fantasies of dreamers on a computer website, or, to quote your own phrase, "SNP propaganda"

I meant adult discussion by various political pundits on the television and in the national (UK) press.

I've not seen many disinterested observers suggest that Scotland would be better off.

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spider9

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fourm member

*You appear not to be reading the thread because a number of people are saying just that.*

Where on this thread are these "number of people" who have said, categorically, that Scotland would be better off with Independence?

Names and references, please.

Or is this just your usual 'throw in any remark', whether true or not, to try and make your weak argument sound better?

And you talk about 'rules of debate' !! Breathtaking arrogance.

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userious?

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I think it's a bit like us down yer in Cornwall asking for home rule.....it will never happen.

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spider9

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fourm member

As usual your wriggling is superb!!

Neither of those two quotes are actually saying that an Independent Scotland would be better off - and you know that full well!! Being a net contributor is not the same as saying Scotland will be better off with independence, for goodness sake, it's discussing the present situation!

Are you unable to see that?

Again my own quotes that you throw in are in no way saying Scotland would be better off on it's own - I was simply talking about whether Scotland were 'takers' or 'givers' at the moment. If the subtelty of the difference evades you, then so be it.

I have never said I advocate independence, to my mind only Scots should make that decision, but I'll accept their decision whatever it may be.

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spider9

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fourm member

*In an independent Scotland the SNP would be up against political parties offering policies related only to Scotland. Those policies might or might not attract the voters but there would be a risk that the SNP could no longer hold sway.

Has it not dawned on you that in an Independent Scotland there would, theoretically be no longer any need for an SNP Party - so why would they worry about 'holding sway' - if they weren't the main party would that mean it was back to the Union again?!

Are you sure you really do understand this 'independence' business fully?

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spider9

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fourm member

*Exactly the response I expected.

Glad to be of service! (;-0)

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