We use cookies to provide you with a better experience. If you continue to use this site, we'll assume you're happy with this. Alternatively, click here to find out how to manage these cookies

hide cookie message
Contact Forum Editor

Send an email to our Forum Editor:


PLEASE NOTE: Your name is used only to let the Forum Editor know who sent the message. Both your name and email address will not be used for any other purpose.

Speakers Corner


It's free to register, to post a question or to start / join a discussion


 

Scottish election and SNP win


TopCat®
Resolved

Likes # 0

I see that the SNP have won 69 seats and thus gained an overall majority in the Scottish Parliamentary election. Gaining this majority now means he has enough Holyrood votes to hold an independence referendum. Do you think that Alex Salmond, when elected the First Minister of Scotland, will now strive to achieve his long-held wish?

Secondly, what in your opinion would separation mean to the rest of us in Britain? TC.

Like this post
spider9

Likes # 0

fourm member

Sorry, but I realise you must have your points answered!

You made a sweeping statement that there was a 'totally different 'feel' around now'

*your experience is not mine

There has just been a historic win for the 'independence party' - that's my evidence. Where's yours, talking to a few inhabitants of your local Conservative club? (if there are such things still in Scotland!).

*just pointing out that it does not hold true for everyone in Scotland.

Will anyone ever find something that everyone in Scotland (or anywhere else for that matter) agree on?

"..without trying to bully you into silence"

Your last two post have opened with "If you say so" and "Oh do give it a rest". People in glass houses, perhaps?

Like this post
Forum Editor

Likes # 0

"But the way I hear things up here the idea of 'giving it a try' is certainly growing."

Which seems to me to be just about the worst basis on which to take a country to independence. You don't take such a major - and irrevocable - constitutional decision on the basis of 'giving it a try'.

I think it's a time for reason, rather than romanticism. Just because there has been a vote against other ideologies it doesn't mean the nation is ready for full independence, it just means people didn't see anything worth voting for.

Like this post
Condom

Likes # 0

FE I find it very strange that you appear to have stuck youre neck out a little here as it is so unlike you. Scotland could certainly survive on its own as its resouces are far in excess of what it would need to support its small population. As I have said in an earlier post when comparing it to Norway which many academics have done before, as the 2 countries are very similar, there is little or no doubt that it has all the requirements to be a very rich country indeed.

The economics of the argument are however different from the sentimental arguments and they should not get muddled. I am a Scot who has lived all over the world but I have been sort of based in England for over 20 years. What I have found is that Scots who live outside Scotland and in other parts of the world would support independence more strongly than home based Scots which some might find strange but I certainly don't. The UK Government has a vested interest in supporting the myth that Scotland is a country which requires constant aid from England and many Scots particularly of my generation have been brought up to believe this. The younger generation doesn't feel like this so I suppose anything could happen in the years to come. Personally I think it is just a matter of time before Scotland becomes independent within the European Community but I hope that this will not result in a change in friendship between our two Nations.

Like this post
Forum Editor

Likes # 0

Condom

I find much to agree with in your description of the Scottish mentality, and I certainly agree that I have stuck my neck out - probably deliberately in an attempt to engage in the debate.

What puzzles me however, is your assertion that "there is little or no doubt that it (Scotland) has all the requirements to be a very rich country indeed."

It begs the question, if it has all the requirements, why isn't it a 'very rich country indeed'? Surely you're not going to argue that Scotland's constitutional association with the rest of the UK has prevented that from happening?

I believe that at some point in the future Scotland may indeed become a fully independent member of the EU, and when/if that happens I very much doubt it will result in a change in the friendship that exists between our two nations. We live too closely, and have too much shared history for it to happen.

Like this post
morddwyd

Likes # 0

"at least for the foreseeable future"

That's why I said 25 to 50 years.

"I fail to see how an independent Scottish economy could prosper."

No-one is suggesting (apart from the diehards) that Scotland will prosper, but that it will get along.

I personally am no longer in any doubt, independence is now inevitable, the people have smelled it.

It won't be for a long time, certainly not in my lifetime , and perhaps not in Alex Salmond's.

It took thirty odd years from the last major SNP breakthrough, in 1974, for the them to progress as far as this majority.

It will take at least as long, with many setbacks along the way, for the next, and ultimate, breakthrough, but that breakthrough will come.

I wish I could believe the same of my own country, but that really is a forlorn hope!

"I think it's a time for reason, rather than romanticism. "

Notwithstanding Burns and Robert the Bruce, I think you'll find the Scots are too hard headed to be influenced by romanticism in this area.

I think that the shift I am seeing is towards "What's best for Scotland", and away from "What's Best for the Union"

There are no longer large numbers of Scots serving in the armies of the Union, and the drift away has imperceptibly started.

I stress, as I have all along, that these are personal opinions only, and I have no evidence to support any of them.

Like this post
spider9

Likes # 0

FE

I agree that 'giving it a try' is an awful basis, but I never said otherwise, I merely said that was the feeling I had been getting up here, and the election result (notwithstanding fourm member's total disbelief) must surely rank as some sort of evidence to support the claim that this idea has gained strength lately.

fourm member

*This will be my third invitation to someone to provide evidence... *

Oil, oil,oil? Listen to the BBC newsnight clip of Professor Stiglitz (Nobel prize winner, economics). The latter ten minutes are especially interesting from a Scots viewpoint.Prof Stiglitz

morddwyd

Once more, complete agreement - well expressed (if I may be so bold!)

Like this post
spider9

Likes # 0

fourm member

You also have been asked to provide evidence that Scotland is a drain on English resources, but simply answer "That's not in my debating rules".

So why keep demanding of others what you will not provide yourself?

Like this post
flycatcher1

Likes # 0

morddwyd. Well put and I tend to agree with you. However I think that the latest Scottish Election results were based on dis-satisfaction with Labour and the Coalition rather than positive support for the SNP. Alex Salmond comes over as a capable leader - a rarity among politicians.

Talking about different nationalities in the services. I flew with three specific Captains one was Southern Irish, one was an English Public Schoolboy and the other was a Scottish Laird. I felt safest with Paddy, I did the most and achieved the most with the Jock and the English Pilot was a very nice chap. Takes all sorts to make the world.

Like this post
bluesbrother

Likes # 0

FE you asked two question, "if it has all the requirements, why isn't it a 'very rich country indeed'?" and "Surely you're not going to argue that Scotland's constitutional association with the rest of the UK has prevented that from happening?" A brief answer from The Independent Dec 2005 link text and the McCrone Report on the Scottish Economy in 1974, you can read it or download it in PDF form from link text

Like this post
Quickbeam

Likes # 0

One of the biggest advantages with an independent Scotland would be not having to compromise on the daylight hours to suit the Caledonian winter.

England can have BST all the year around and Scotland can have JST.

Like this post

Reply to this topic

This thread has been locked.



IDG UK Sites

Why BlackBerry isn't dead: Firm keeps Mercedes F1 team driving with enterprise package

IDG UK Sites

The iPhone is doomed. Doomed to be marginally less successful than a very successful thing.

IDG UK Sites

How to prototype native mobile apps without writing code

IDG UK Sites

How to prepare for and update to OS X Yosemite: Get your Mac ready to download & install Apple's...