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AV, was Clegg set up?


spider9
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Was it coincidence that throughout the coalition Clegg has been given 'bad news' to impart and thus incur the wrath of voters and his own Party members? Now he is 'leading' the AV campaign, his reduced standing will also reflect on people's way of deciding on AV. But, more interesting, will be what happens after the vote - if AV fails then I think the grass-roots Libs may well want big changes, even a new leader.

Might prove to be a problem for Dave and the coalition.

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Quickbeam

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Returning the Libdems to the sidelines for another century was a risk he had to take. Without taking it, it could be another century anyway before the possibility of electoral reform came along again.

What was offered by Cameron was much better than the nothing that Heath offered Thorpe, so it was right to take it. AV isn't what any party wants, but if carried, it could be the stepping stone towards PR.

""if AV fails then I think the grass-roots Libs may well want big changes, even a new leader. Maybe they will, as he'll be damned as the leader that took a risk and failed, or maybe hailed as the leader that broke the cycle of my tun, your turn Buggins's turn...

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spider9

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fourm member

"When a campaign goes negative, as the 'Yes to AV' campaign has..."

Are you serious? Have you seen the things Varsi has been saying?

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spider9

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If this is the best the Chairman of the Conservatives can do then Heaven help us!

She obviously doesn't understand it, is trying to bluff her way through, and is telling us how to vote when she, herself, is non-elected!! Brilliant.

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bremner

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I saw a Tory MP on Have I got News For You this week pushing the Tory line that AV will result in hung parliaments.

I have seen published a review of how AV would have changed the last 7 elections and other than 2010 no other would have resulted in a hung parliament but in almost every case Labour would get slightly more seats at the expense of the Tories.

This is why Cameron and clan are against it NOT because of hung parliaments.

I am not in favour of AV because it is a fudge, offering virtually nothing more than FPTP.

As usual politicians are solely thinking of themselves and not in the principle of having a truly democratic parliament.

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sunnystaines

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if AV was made simple ie if no one part gets 50% then there is a re run between the top two results rather than complex and confusing systems. then i am sure it would get more votes

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bremner

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Of course there must be a caveat to AV predictions from previous elections because there can be no certainty as to what 2nd, 3rd etc choices would be.

But the point is that where a party has a large majority under FPTP, as has been the case in most the last 30 years then AV would have had no significant impact. Unlike full PR which would have resulted in hung parliaments.

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spider9

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bremner "I am not in favour of AV because it is a fudge, offering virtually nothing more than FPTP"

I also feel that AV is a fudge, but that was all the Tories would allow as their sop to the LibDems when they needed them to join the coalition. The problem is that if AV is turned down then it will be another generation before anyone is given a chance to change the system again. So the dream of a truly democratic system, that you wish, would again be lost.

I did notice that Varsi couldn't bring herself to say that the other Home nations already using AV were misguided! That might not have gone down well with those voters, I suppose.

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Strawballs

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Why is cameron against AV was that not the system that got him elected as leader of his party.

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spider9

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You may possibly understand the UK voting systems, so I suggest you have a word with your leader, Varsi, to enlighten her. Listen to her 'answer' to the question about Scottish/Welsh/NI voting and you will hear that she thinks it's AV, but because 'they've had it a number of years', that's OK.

I accept my own mistake, but she is leading the Tory No campaign, so should be better informed?

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spider9

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fourm member

Sincere apologies, I just thought, from your posts, that you are in the 'No' camp for AV, Varsi is 'leading' the Tory No vote, ergo, she is your leader.

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