worrying times

  Ungus 19:10 13 May 15
Locked

After being one of the first countries to sign the declaration of human rights it now appears the UK government is to try and withdraw from it. I find this a frightening prospect for those at the bottom of society who will have no hope of justice or redress. What they wish to replace it with is even more frightening a British bill designed and drawn up by a right wing conservative government.

  oresome 19:56 13 May 15

I would hazard a guess that 99% of the UK population are unconcerned by this change, let alone worried, but I appreciate your concern.

I think this law has had some unintended consequences and been rich pickings for the legal profession and the press.

Can the rights of the individual usurp those of society as a whole and it's elected government?

In a similar vein, a bill to curb radical preaching may be a wrong move, driving it underground.

I wonder if it would be better to confront the ideas with well reasoned arguments against. The pen being mightier than the sword.

  Forum Editor 22:50 13 May 15

It's interesting isn't it?

When a media story appears about a migrant who has used the Human Rights Act to avoid this or that action by the government there's an outcry about 'soft Britain' and 'do gooders' - very often in this forum.

Now the government wants to do something to stop the law being used as what some have called a 'criminals charter' and - yes, you've guessed it - there's an outcry, and lots of posturing by opposition interests.

I prefer to wait to see the actuality of what is proposed, rather than react to theories. Let's see the wording of the so called Human Rights Bill before getting all steamed up about it.

  Ungus 08:51 14 May 15

Under the devolution act [Scotland] if Westminster wants to make provision that would alter the legislative competence of the Scottish parliament such as the human rights act []which is enshrined in Scots law] it must get the consent of the Holyrood parliament. The procedure is known as the Sewel motion it is an agreement but not legally binding. But heres the rubb under the Smith commission which all political parties in the UK signed up to the UK government has promised to to make the Sewel convention legally binding and Cameron has already stated that the Smith commission will be implemented in full. Mr Cameron went to a very expensive private school but it would appear his education was in vain as he quite obviously does not have the ability to either read or understand plain English or he has no idea of what the word honourable means when it is attached to MPs. I think there is a case for improving the education of many MPs as to what a devolved system of government means and what exactly they signed up to in the Scotland 1998. I am baffled by the ignorance of some as to how these islands now govern the people, it is not just about Westminster and the SE of England anymore there are other forces at work and it appears some in the Conservative government are hell bent on causing friction where none exist by constantly undermining laid down agreements with the constituent parts of the United Kingdoms. Not very clever as Holyrood has now stated on all sides bar the conservatives that they will do all in their power to resist these moves on HR. One week into the new government and its a mess.

  john bunyan 18:57 14 May 15

Ungus / spider9

Good news ? See

Manchester etc

  Ungus 17:35 15 May 15

Do we get the football teams as well

  Devil Fish 23:44 15 May 15

back to topic, Withdrawing from it and replacing is frightening how so ?. We managed many years without it and i am sure if we withdraw we will still manage.

The fact is the human rights act has been hi jacked and made millions for unscrupulous lawyers and that needs changing.As a country we should have the right to deport law breakers without the fiasco that goes with it these days. if it means someone going back to an unsafe country so be it they should not have abused the generosity of the UK (Dons crash helmet ). I believe the UK has a place in Europe but some things need to change Human rights being one of them ,immigration another i am not against immigration but it needs to be controlled

  Forum Editor 08:36 16 May 15

"As a country we should have the right to deport law breakers without the fiasco that goes with it these days."

I'm not going to argue with that. If someone from another country commits a crime whilst here I see no reason why that person should be able to invoke the 'right to a family life' as a defence against deportation - the more so when the crime committed may well have deprived victims of the same right.

It's all a question of balance. We have a long history of providing a safe haven for those who are refugees from war, or from oppressive regimes, and I wouldn't want to see that compromised in any way. What we really need to do is assert our sovereign right as a nation to control our borders as we see fit, and then to exercise that control; at the moment we seem unable to do either of those things.

Other human rights could easily be addressed by a carefully drafted British Bill of Rights. I see no reason why it couldn't be done.

  Ungus 13:45 16 May 15

Politically its a bit of a red herring to withdraw from it as it would be very difficult to do especially with devolved parliamnents as HR is a devolved matter. My theory is this is just a noise created so the conservatives can push through these 12 billion of cuts which in Scottish terms amounts to around 1 billion. I have grown used to the right to life the right to free speech etc etc which all of the act is about. I do not trust a right wing conservative government to abolish an act that would put us in the same league such as N Korea, there is currently insufficient detail in what is proposed, but there is already a head of steam building up here to fight any repeal of the act, it may be England could withdraw but Scotland could remain signaturies but that would cause a bit of a stoochy legally. Legalising the arrest on suspicion is probably what the government is trying to do, along with imprisonment without charge, and the use of torture, all these things were used by this country in the 1970 through to 80s in Ireland look what happened their and even to contemplate a return to that is unthinkable. Personally i do not think it will get anywhere as forcing it on another part of the UK when we all know it is a devolved matter just wont cut it unless of course the parlaimnet in Edinburgh loses its collective mind and agrees to it. The human rights act [lets not confuse it with EU] has proved its importance on numerous occasion, tory oppostion to it is based on little more than right wing ideology and paranoia about the European connection in general terms, it just shows up the conservatives true colours and a little Englander attitude to Johnny Foreigner and thats not making light of the undoubted high numbers of immigrants in the south east. Its nonsense to try to repeal it, the act protects the vulnerable and marginalised and as i am still technically a British citizen and European citizen how can i be stripped of my rights. A daft notion designed to cover for the 12 billion pound of cuts heading the way of the poor the disabled the disenfranchised those on low wages and the many others currently in a struggle.

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