Time to untie the hands of the police?

  Quickbeam 09:25 10 Aug 11
Locked

This short piece on The Telegraph web paper yesterday asks a very valid question regarding the old riot act, on why the police seem to have to wait until something illegal happens before crown dispersal action can be taken, despite all the social website evidence telling them that illegal gatherings are going to occur hours in advance.

Reprieve The Riot Act

  donki 10:15 10 Aug 11

Listen to the people that are rioting, I heard a few interviewed on the radio. When asked why they are doing it they say because other people are doing it and nothing is happening to them and they wanted the goods. The interviewer went on to ask were they not scared of repercussions the reply was "what repercussions?", they went onto say they knew that if they were first time offenders which they all said they were they would get off very lightly. They see the news and are educated enough to know the majority of rioters will get off scott free.

Whether people like it or not some parts of society need a deterrent to stop them acting in an antisocial way. These parts of society don't have the morals or upbringing that the majority do. The majority, through good parenting, respect for the authorities and fear of repercussions don't act in an antisocial law breaking way. I feel so sorry for the police, they are not respected and even more worrying they are unable to instil any fear when they need to. The only thing that seamed to scare the rioters off were when the dogs were unleashed, that sent them scattering.

The Police Service needs to become more of a Police Force again, its a hard balance but something has to be done. Its disgusting seeing police lined up behind shields taking abuse and being attacked by teenagers seemingly unable to retaliate in any way.

Should they be allowed to exert more force? In my opinion yes but there will always be someone shouting police brutality. Then there will be occasions when to much force is used and due to the media mostly there will be a public outcry and the police will be criticised.

Its been said to death but I will say it again, morals and social responsibility is lacking in the younger generations. I have friends who are teachers that work in good schools and the abuse and lack of respect they get from a considerable number of children I simply couldn't cope with. Society, especially teenagers and younger need to know there will be consequences to their actions at the minute there is a severe lack of them at home, in school and on the streets.

  Quickbeam 10:17 10 Aug 11

"...an up to date version is far too simplistic." Really?

One night of sporadic rioting in the capital is unfortunate, a second with notice is bad, but a third is disastrous. A forth that sees it spread to the regions is a mockery of social order in the extreme.

Local criticism in Manchester where very few arrests were made but (reassuringly?) many photographs taken is... well I'm speechless. What use are photographs of a 90% masked riot force? Is there more interest in maintaining the taboo of not using riot gas, water canon or rubber bullets on the mainland than controlling rioters on the night?

I've always taken the hard line with law and order, and accept that there must be a compromise between my rod of iron world and what we have now, which is as soft as a pot of pansies on old maidens window sill. So in my world the reading and declaration of a riot would immediately allow the use of taboo tactics to come into the options of the local superintendent on the ground, with some qualification rules for their use.

  1. Allow the declaration of a riot to allow the police to declare all that haven't dispersed to a previous call to be declared collectively under arrest.
  2. Allow the police unfettered right to keep the collective arrestees corralled with the use of horses, dogs, water cannon and riot gas if necessary.
  3. Allow the use of riot gas against a mob that start to damage the streets and property.
  4. Allow the use of rubber bullets on anyone wielding a dangerous missile.

...I could go on for hours, but basically, after what has become a new kind of whip-up riot that could happen again in an instant, we need to know that when a riot is declared, a completely different set of tough zero tolerance rules apply from that moment.

It's time to forget the taboo methods and use what should have been used on the third night in London. Those methods would in all probability have had a very calming influence on the regions last night.

  anchor 10:20 10 Aug 11

We don`t need more legislation, we need strong determined action and leadership. This should start at the top with David Cameron giving orders to use the firmest possible measures to quell the riots, which are spreading across the country and now include murder. At the moment we are not getting it.

Perhaps we should send him a lyre to play, (like the Roman Emperor Nero), while the country burns.

The financial implications of the riots cannot be imagined. Forget he Olympics, I cannot imagine foreign tourists wanting to visit Britain at this time, and those here are probably eager to return home.

  shellship 10:32 10 Aug 11

It is the total lack of respect for authority that may well start at home but is encouraged at schools. Teachers are no longer permitted to punish or restrain badly behaved pupils and until they are, without fear of their suspension or being sued, then the lack of respect for authority will continue. Government cannot do much about parenting but it can sort out the shameful situation at schools.

  interzone55 11:00 10 Aug 11

shellship

Government cannot do much about parenting but it can sort out the shameful situation at schools.

Wrong, Wrong, Wrong

The problem with society is that everyone expects everyone-else to sort it out.

Discipline should not be placed in the hands of teachers.

If a child misbehaves in school a warning letter should be sent to the parent or guardian. It's up to them to read it.

If a second letter has to be sent the parent or guardian should be arrested and fined.

On the occasion of a third letter having to be sent the parent or guardian should be taken into detention.

I'm fairly sure the kid will get a good whipping off their parent or guardian well before the fourth letter that involves a public flogging is sent...

  Quickbeam 11:07 10 Aug 11

Undoubtedly the percentage of the population involved is very small. But some small nuts need a sledge hammer before a response is noticed.

All the evidence points to the social networks being used to tell the would be rioters that if they come out in enough numbers, they will get away with it.

My method would leave a very different message twittering around on the tweetheads phones.

  Woolwell 11:29 10 Aug 11

"If a child misbehaves in school a warning letter should be sent to the parent or guardian. It's up to them to read it." If they can read or can be bothered to.

"If a second letter has to be sent the parent or guardian should be arrested and fined." But they will not be able to pay the fine.

"On the occasion of a third letter having to be sent the parent or guardian should be taken into detention." Who looks after the children who are already semi feral and become completely feral. Many are from single parent families and some are unsure as to who is the father.

"I'm fairly sure the kid will get a good whipping off their parent or guardian well before the fourth letter that involves a public flogging is sent..." Too drunk or on drugs to do it.

This a very complex situation and until the issue of morality, the low aspirations of the "parents" and children and the encouragement to disrespect any kind of authority is addressed these situations will continue.

  morddwyd 12:06 10 Aug 11

All you need to do to untie the hands of the police is get rid of the CPS.

Because they are target driven all too often they will not proceed because of "lack of evidence", when what they really mean is that there is not a good enough prospect of a conviction, and their target may suffer.

Small wonder that the average copper on the beat simply wags a finger rather than go to the trouble of bringing someone in,only to see them walk.

Put the decision whether or not to prosecute back into the hands of the police, and whichever solicitor they pick to do the work (the ones that didn't get many convictions tended not to get the work!).

  Quickbeam 12:27 10 Aug 11

"So, should the social networks be blocked in this country so that can't happen?"

I think we could survive a week if a temporary lockdown on internet social networks came about and happened to include this one in the net.

And it is already being talked about Rotten Blackberries

  Aitchbee 12:33 10 Aug 11

Should there be an inspector permanently on this forum to monitor what is being said? Or, should this forum be banned?

Is there someone to monitor the monitor.?

How you deal with communications is analogous to what you do about crowd control.

Dealing with 'mob riots' is different to crowd control. Your analogy is a bit tenuous.

This forum should not be banned. HB

This thread is now locked and can not be replied to.

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