Moves to stop 'vertical drinking'

  Seth Haniel 09:49 27 Sep 09
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have to join the rest of the punters 'Horizontal' ;)

  Quickbeam 10:05 27 Sep 09

was the first to advocate the benefits of horizontal drinking...

  spuds 10:28 27 Sep 09

When the council's were given more powers, the situation became more out of control, to the point that some activities are becoming unenforceable. Even the police have to argue a case of closing down a drinking establishment or requesting special conditions to a licence approval.

Every week, pubs and clubs are closing down in fairly large numbers, so it as to be a case that some drinking places have to offer that incentive of larger volume less hour drinking, with a possible price tag to match public spending power.

I still recall the 'old days', when you entered a bar, sat at a table and enjoyed that pleasant drink. Shoulder to shoulder with a still standing drunk (male or female),isn't my opinion of enjoyment nowadays. In my particular area of the country, it seems to have a regular weekly media report about glass, bottle, knife or shear bloody attacks which are drink related. Some of these have resulted in death, usually explained as "a moment of madness".

  Monoux 10:32 27 Sep 09

Like a lot of things these days the softly softly brigade have won out. Places where there is persitant trouble or in the linked to case should have their licence revoked and be shut down

  Forum Editor 11:34 27 Sep 09

Way back in my murky past I was involved with the brewing industry, and although I wasn't at the pub-running, drink-serving sharp end I did become involved in the administration side of the licensing of pubs.

The country was (and probably still is) divided up into lots of licensing divisions, and in each division there was a bench of local licensing justices. These people were responsible for granting and annually renewing the trading licences for all the pubs, restaurants,off licenses and clubs in their area. Anyone applying for a license to sell alcohol had to satisfy the justices and the local Police that he/she was a fit and proper person to hold a license.

Each year all licenses were considered for renewal at an annual licensing session, and all licensees within a division had to apply for their license to be renewed - it wasn't an automatic process. If you didn't apply, your licence would not be renewed, and your pub/club etc, would have to close. In practice that rarely happened. At the annual meeting the Police had the right to object to the renewal of any license if they felt that the premises concerned had not been properly run from a public order point of view, and the justices always took police objections very seriously. If police objected to your licence renewal you were likely to be without a job at the end of that day.

The justices would not grant a licence for a new pub or club if, in their opinion there were already enough licensed premises in a particular area. The idea was to provide local amenities without turning alcohol selling into a free for all.

It all worked pretty well, and in my experience the balance between what the brewers wanted and what the community would allow was about right.

Nowadays we have new laws, and just about anyone seems to be able to sell alcohol - it's available from newsagents and grocery shops on pretty well every street in Britain. Retailers are motivated by profit, and the Police can't monitor every shop and bar in the area on a seven day a week basis - vast amounts of alcohol are being sold to people who are too young, or too drunk, or both.

  Snec 11:40 27 Sep 09

The picture on the first link shows someone drinking in the street. As an ex-publican I can tell you it is the cheap supermarket drink that is the main cause of drunks on the streets.

When I had pubs and a club there was always a strong element of youngsters getting half kettled at home before coming out to where drinks were considerably dearer, sometimes by as much as 100% dearer.

Pubs and clubs are, in the main, pretty well regulated. Supermarkets are not! If drink was sold only in pubs, clubs and off-licences the problem would be lessened.

  Snec 11:42 27 Sep 09

FE, you posted while I was typing..... you're right!

  spuds 13:27 27 Sep 09

fourm member-The elections of council's usually represents a very low turnout, which is perhaps governed by the die-hards who have certain political interests or perhaps faith in their local councillor, possibly from the door knocking stage of promises.

My local council is the same main party,and as been such since the year dot, except at times of unrest, when the other parties have shared responsibilities for a limited spell.

I am a constant thorn in our council's side, with various comments,complaints about one thing or another. Do they ever listen to the members of the public or myself about some of the decision making, and the answer is no, irrespective who is the holder of 'the chair'. We have had incidents that have resulted in the questioning of what the council as done or intend doing, which as resulted in court cases at the council's (public) expense.

The Forum Editor is quite correct on how things were, but that as changed in a massive way since the council's took control. The same could be stated when council's began to take on previous police work, especially when they were given powers under the Crime and Disorder Act plus a number of other legal procedures, which effect the general public in everyday living. The problem in the main, was the council's wanted this,possibly for the extra power and authority factor, but have now found that having to fund or find the manpower to cover these extra duties, is not what the council's expected or perhaps later wanted.

I would also mention that most police forces still retain a 'licencing officer', whose main task nowadays is the collator of information, and very little more.

  Chegs ®™ 13:51 27 Sep 09

I recall frequenting bars that offered drink promotions(pint + short for a pound)years ago,this nightclub is now just the concrete foundations.I also read that a nightclub in town has had regular objections from the police when applying for its licence due to the incessant trouble in & around it every weekend.It was always granted its renewal but is usually refused extended hours whereas the majority of other pubs/clubs have their hours extended.I quit drinking several years ago but like to "keep an eye on developments" around town as my daughter and her friends sometimes are in the town centre until 10pm.With regards to licencing,I was amazed to see a noticeboard outside a motorcycle dealership yesterday declaring "Bar Open" and looking through the windows as I passed I could see several tables arranged & the owner of the dealership stood behind the "Bar" still dressed in his "mechanics overall" with a pint in his hand.

  spuds 13:58 27 Sep 09

Perhaps going on the old days in Eire, when people use to have two or three other trades within the same property, one usually a bar.

  Forum Editor 15:11 27 Sep 09

would be to have each local authority appoint a licensing officer, whose job it would be to tour licensed premises without notice, and report any transgressions of the licensing laws to Police and/or council executives.

fourm member's comment that "Publicans will only turn business away if the alternative, losing all their business, is much worse." is on the money.

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