English Monarchs

  morddwyd 19:51 15 Nov 11
Locked

A post about the monarchy in another thread set me to pondering the vagaries of history, and it occurred to me that the English have not done too well with native monarchs.

Even before the French chappie came over in 1066 there were sundry Scandinavians, and since then there have been, not in any particular order, Tudors from Wales, Stuarts from Scotland, a dip into the House of Orange in Holland and a whole slew of Hanoverians from Germany.

Notwithstanding diplomatically expedient name changes, the current lot are Saxe Coburg Gothas, though since the Queen is of a generation where the wife normally took the husband's name they should be Mountbattens, or to use the correct word, Battenburgs.

The current Queen is the daughter of Elizabeth of Glamis and and the granddaughter of Princess Mary of Teck.

The next one will be half Greek and not until William, assuming there will still be a monarchy, will there be a modicum of English blood, courtesy of the Spencers.

Immigration has been going on a long time!

  bremner 20:11 15 Nov 11

Prince Phillip whilst being born at Mon Repos in Corfu was of German and Danish/German parentage.

Mary of Tecks mother was English to a degree, her mother being a granddaughter of George III. So other than the line of Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon it is pretty much all German since 1714.

  john bunyan 21:14 15 Nov 11

Your heading is misleading.The crowns of Scotland and England merged in 1603 and in 1707 the combined Scotland, England etc became "Great Britian". I agree the history of the monarchy is polyglot to say the least; a TV programme last year found a possible pretender in Australia, if one believes some documents found in a French catherederal. Will the Scots retain the monarch in the event of an indepenant Scotland?

  morddwyd 21:19 15 Nov 11

"Your heading is misleading."

How?

I was referring to sovereigns of England.

The merging of the crowns of Scotland and England has no more relevance in this particular context than the English claim to Calais.

  bremner 21:32 15 Nov 11

John Bunyan

Your etc was infact Wales.

In 1801 The United Kingdom of Great Britain became the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland.

In 1927 that became the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland?

If Scotland became independent then that would be the end of Great Britain.

  morddwyd 21:41 15 Nov 11

"that would be the end of Great Britain"

Not necessarily so.

Great Britain is primarily a geographical term, not a political one, and refers to the big island.

It will always include Scotland, but never the Isle of Wight or Anglesey.

  john bunyan 21:47 15 Nov 11

This is amusingly pedantic, but on accession her title was : Her Majesty Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God, of Great Britain, Ireland and the British Dominions beyond the Seas Queen, Defender of the Faith.In London, she was proclaimed as Queen Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God Queen of this Realm and of Her other Realms and Territories, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith. She is clearly the English monarch, but the OP heading could equally have been "Scottish Monarchs! I can't see why, if the Scots went for independance why they conld not choose her as head of state as in Australia.

  bremner 22:14 15 Nov 11

It is debatable whether Great Britain is primarily geographic (the big Island) or primarily political as per the Act of Union i.e the entire England, Scotland and Wales including their islands (other than IOM and Channel Islands)

The Queen could of course be head of state in Scotland post independence should they choose to invite her.

  morddwyd 23:20 15 Nov 11

Not at all sure how Scotland, or even Australia, are relevant.

The Queen is obviously Queen of England, and all the other places, but her lineage is Saxe Coburg Gotha, and while she is no doubt English by adoption, birth and simply residence, she is not by ancestry, and nor are any recent monarchs.

Edward VII was the son of a German, George V was the son of a Danish princess, and Gorge VI the son of a German princess.

No matter what she is actually Queen of, she does not have much English blood, and nor did the last one and nor will the next one.

  zzzz999 05:04 16 Nov 11

'Her Majesty Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God, of Great Britain, Ireland and the British Dominions beyond the Seas Queen, Defender of the Faith.In London, she was proclaimed as Queen Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God Queen of this Realm and of Her other Realms and Territories, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith.'

Who is this Elizabeth the Second you speak of? I cannot recall an Elizabeth the First of Great Britain, Ireland and the British Dominions beyond the Seas. Surely the current incumbent of the throne is Elizabeth the First?

  Quickbeam 07:44 16 Nov 11

Scottish Nationalists strongly objected to Post Office pillar boxes having ERII on them when she was crowned as they was never an ERI in Scotland (despite the previous boxes being marked Edward VII/VIII & George V without problems).

However, it could all easily be solved by dumping the grossly outdated convention of a monarchy as head of state. Off with their heads, up the revolution and long live President Cameron! At least we'd then get a decent national anthem to sing at sporting events...

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