Ducking a Scottish Debate?

  spider9 12:33 27 Sep 13
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Should the PM refuse to debate with Salmond on this critical referendum issue?

  fourm member 12:59 27 Sep 13

Nice try Alex.

If Cameron had agreed it would play into Salmond's agenda that Scotland is being held prisoner by England.

Cameron is quite right to say that Alistair Darling is the right man to debate with Salmond.

Salmond doesn't want that because he wants to push the 'no true Scot' strawman.

In his view 'no true Scot' is opposed to independence.

But this is also an attempt to turn attention away from the run of bad news he's been getting.

It's bad enough that Scots are fed up with his obsession about independence.

It also seems that his hope of rigging the vote by bringing in 16 & 17 year olds may not work after 75% of schoolchildren voted against independence in a mock poll.

Finally, a couple of weeks ago, I read a piece that made a lot of sense. It's point was that there was a big difference between the notion of Scottish independence and the possibility of independence under a socialist dictator. Its key point was that Salmond was the wrong person to trust with independence and I wanted to link to it but when I searched for 'Alex Salmond' 'wrong' I got too many results to be able to find it.

  Algerian peter ™ 13:34 27 Sep 13

Surely it would be in the conservatives interest to give Scotland the elbow. In the 2010 United Kingdom general election they were

41 Labour MP's

11 Liberal [ turn coat ] Demo c rats

6 SNP

1 Conservative.

Would that not give the Conservatives a huge advantage if the next Genral Election did not include Scotland.

  fourm member 14:02 27 Sep 13

Jock1e

'[But this is also an attempt to turn attention away from the run of bad news he's been getting]'

I don't know if you've missed the point or are trying a Salmondesque distortion but I was referring to the run of bad news for Salmond.

Cameron hasn't improved as a PM in recent weeks but the nonsense from other party leaders like Salmond, Farage and Miliband has helped him.

  fourm member 14:05 27 Sep 13

Algerian Peter

'Would that not give the Conservatives a huge advantage if the next Genral Election did not include Scotland.'

Yes, it would. And that's a telling point. Cameron is clearly putting aside party politics in favour of looking at what is best for Scotland.

  Flak999 15:13 27 Sep 13

Personally, I think it unlikely that the Scottish people will vote for independence. They have an awful lot of benefits being part of the UK and as I see it nothing to gain from separation.

However, we English have much to gain from a severing of the ties with the Scots, according to figures published by the Institute of Fiscal Studies, total public spending was around 11 per cent higher per person in Scotland than in the UK as a whole in 2011-12.

Official figures from the previous year suggest Scotland spent £62 bn but raised just £45 bn, an annual subsidy from the English taxpayer of at least £17 bn! Also, Scots receive a range of services free of charge, including prescriptions, long-term care for the elderly and university tuition, all of which attract hefty charges in England.

Scotland’s welfare bill alone is huge, and utterly unsustainable without some form of external funding. Its pensions bill is £13.3 bn a year, health care costs £11 bn and social security £8 bn.

The fact is English money is propping up the most welfare, drink and drug-addicted nation in Europe!

So personally if the Scots want to go down the road of independence I say let them, I for one will bid them a fond farewell. However I think we are all well aware that the Scots know which side their bread is buttered, I think Mr Salmond will be looking for a new job come next Autumn!

  Algerian peter ™ 16:19 27 Sep 13

Flak999

They may ask / demand { through the european court } a percentage of the oil revenue that flowed through Aberdeen from the 70's onwards.

That would make them a strong country and the remainder of Great Britain in the poor house

"The fact is English money is propping up the most welfare"

nearly 50% of welfare goes on those collecting pensions.

"In fact, 47% of UK benefit spending goes on state pensions of £74.22bn a year, more than the £48.2bn the UK spends on servicing its debt."

from click here

  Flak999 16:52 27 Sep 13

Algerian peter

Not really sure what argument you are making here? We are talking about Scotland and the annual subsidy of £17bn that the English taxpayer subsidises the Scottish taxpayer by each year!

They may ask/demand the moon, but they won't get it!

  spider9 17:04 27 Sep 13

I'd hoped this wouldn't turn into a "Who gives/takes most, financially, from the Union" sort of debate - with all the usual guff about "free prescriptions and care" (when it's simply how resources are prioritised in Scotland - a choice that England could also make if they were of that mind, but they prefer to spend their budget elsewhere).

My query was simply about whether the PM was wise to shy away from the First Minister on this matter. Does he not think he can outperform Salmond?

Personally, I think a straight debate of this kind could only be good for the electorate.

  Woolwell 17:12 27 Sep 13

Alistair Darling, head of the pro-Union campaign group Better Together, is the lead person. It is better to have Scot v Scot.

  spider9 18:29 27 Sep 13

Woolwell

But surely, it should be the head of the devolved government against the head of the UK government. Why not the organ grinders facing off instead of one of the monkeys?

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