care advice banks joint accounts

  Terry Brown 12:51 PM 30 May 13
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Answered

I was at a meeting yesterday, where the subject was "Care in the Community", and I had heard about the £72000 cap on care, which I assumed was the maximum you would need to pay if you had to go into a care home, however that sum is apparently only for 'Personal care' and does not include the cost of living in the care home.

I would like to know who thought £72000 was reasonable, I don't.

Point 2--

You have a joint bank account, if one person is 'mentally incapable' by reason of (e.g.) a stroke or accident, the bank has the right to freeze the whole account, so no money is accessible to either partner.

You have to go through the courts to get access to your own money (apparently this started in 2010), so what do you live on in the meantime.

Point 3--

You have a house in joint names, how much of the house do you own each?

Answer-- You both own 100% of the house and the value of the house is used to calculate the costs of care, so where does the partner not in care live when the house if the house has to be sold to pay for care.

Terry

  lotvic 14:03 PM 30 May 13

If that is true, it sounds most unfair. Can you give us some links to DWP pages so that we can check the 'small print' on those points you raise?

  Woolwell 14:17 PM 30 May 13

Fairly sure that Point 3 is incorrect. The ownership depends on whether you have joint tenancy or tenancy in common. In practice the value of the house is ignored when the care home resident's spouse lives there (not estranged or divorced).

  Woolwell 14:19 PM 30 May 13

The DWP advice states "If your customer still owns the property they lived in before moving into the care home, its value will be treated as capital unless: their husband, wife or civil partner, or the person who was their partner when they lived at home, still lives in it a close relative (who has either reached the minimum qualifying age, is disabled or incapable of work) still lives in it, they are trying to sell it."

Therefore point 3 is incorrect.

  Woolwell 14:31 PM 30 May 13
Answer

One of the solutions for point 2 is to obtain a Lasting Power of Attorney for each partner.

  namtas 14:50 PM 30 May 13

Item 3. Having a house in joint name may be a problem.

However a property joint owned and which is habited by a direct members of family cannot be sold to meet costs in the way suggested.

Quote from "ThisisMoney" "The value of your home must be disregarded when assessing your ability to pay for care if your partner is still living there. It does not matter what age they are as long as they are your spouse, your civil partner or you're living together as husband and wife.

The same applies if a relative aged 60 or over or someone who is incapacitated lives in your home."

  john bunyan 18:07 PM 30 May 13

Re point3. If you change the tenancy from joint to tenancy in common then I would imagine the lien is limited to the value of the person in the home's share. Not sure if "they" can put a lien (charge) on the house to be recovered when the second owner dies?

  Terry Brown 21:21 PM 30 May 13

Lotvic

I have done some checking with the Law Society, (update 03 April 2013)and there is a new set of rules to be followed, however to understand them you need to be a solicitor.

Link attached.Running a bank account for person unable to do their own

Attached other links that are more explanatory.

Mental health

British banking requirements

They all say ' Put these in place before the state of mind is reached', but what about an (e.g) Road accident, Stroke or similar, where it is not predictable.

Terry

  john bunyan 21:38 PM 30 May 13

You have to apply to the Court of Protection to obtain a Power of Attorney. A few years ago it was cheaper and easier. Recently a solicitor quoted about £500 each for my wife and I to set up one whilst still OK, He said it may cost well over £1000 if no advanced arrangement was made. Our major accounts and house etc are in joint names with either or one signature, and my bank have told me the account would NOT be frozen if one was incapacitated, and on death they would change it to one name with no fuss. It may be worth a chat with your bank.

  BT 23:25 PM 30 May 13

..and on death they would change it to one name with no fuss...

When my father died I went to the various places with my Mother, and the change over from joint to her name was carried out there and then with no fuss. You just need the Death Certificate. Admittedly this was a few years ago but I can't see why things should have changed.

  Quickbeam 00:17 AM 31 May 13

It's much simpler to keep it all under his n' hers mattresses.

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