Another Malaysian Airlines 777 lost

  Al94 16:59 17 Jul 14
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A terrible tragedy and unbelievable that Malaysian Airlines involved again.

Why are passenger aircraft flying over what is effectively a war zone with several military aircraft shot down recently?

1]: [click here

  spuds 17:50 17 Jul 14

I am not speculating as to how, what, when about this tragedy, but I recall the number of times I and my colleagues flew between Venezuela and Jamaica and Cuban MIG,s followed us through their airspace. It didn't take all that long to realise that one split second false move or mistake by either side could have easily resulted in another air disaster.

  Woolwell 18:34 17 Jul 14

At the height at which the aircraft then it was deliberately shot down by either an fighter or long range SAM which would have had to be radar targeted. It will be difficult to claim that they go the wrong target as it would have been squawking its id throughout and on a filed flight plan under ATC control. At that height it should have been safe. Whoever shot it down is going to put enormous pressur. No aircraft will now fly over Ukraine. If a deliberate act then very poor identification or extremely indiscriminate firing.

A terrible tragedy and the relatives must be in shock and great grief.

  Forum Editor 08:07 18 Jul 14

Expert sources do seem to be agreeing that this aircraft was hit by a Surface to Air missile. The Ukrainian government has released a recording which they say is a conversation between pro-Russian militants admitting to shooting down the plane.

If it's true, and if - as many expect - it turns out that the missile was supplied by Russian sources, there will be widespread speculation about Putin's role in it all. The likely missile would be a Russian made SA-17 Grizzly.

  BillSers 08:50 18 Jul 14

If it's true, and if - as many expect - it turns out that the missile was supplied by Russian sources, there will be widespread speculation about Putin's role in it all. The likely missile would be a Russian made SA-17 Grizzly.

Not necessarily, not if the perps wanted no trace back to the Kremlin. They may have used another SAM.

  Woolwell 10:50 18 Jul 14

BillSers - Where would they get another SAM from? It will not be a NATO system but almost certainly Russian built.

It may have been a captured launcher only.

  spuds 12:35 18 Jul 14

Whatever the case, its just speculation at present, very similar to the other unsolved Malaysian aircraft mystery.

Personally, I am waiting for the British Governments views on this subject, and whether William Hague's replacement will have anything to say, and if so -what?.

  BillSers 13:55 18 Jul 14

**BillSers - Where would they get another SAM from? It will not be a NATO system but almost certainly Russian built. It may have been a captured launcher only.**

You may be right. Having just seen the BBC news it seems the only system capable of striking something at 33,000 feet is the Russian launcher. It bit silly I'd have thought, unless Putin wants everyone to suspect the Kremlin as just a bit more than sabre rattling.

Blame it on the pro-Russian rebels.

Nice political ploy.

  johndrew 10:13 19 Jul 14

Based on reports up to this morning it would appear likely that a Buk 11 missile system was used to down the aircraft. The only source of this system to Ukraine would be Russia. Whether the system was one 'captured' by rebel forces from legal Ukraine forces or supplied directly to them is unknown as is the nationality of the operators at the time it was operated.

What is known is that when European observers attempted to gain access to the crash site with a view to securing it they were opposed by Russian separatists/rebels and shots were fired.

Based evidence and actions so far, if the separatists/rebels fail to permit access to investigative teams it will compound the belief they were directly responsible for the act. It could also be that any investigation will only prove or disprove the use of a missile and not be able to identify the operators of the system at the time.

The current assertions made by various countries as to liability are not supported by definitive evidence.

It is sad that innocent travellers have been killed and their deaths dragged into a political quagmire where members of the UN accuse each other of actions resulting in such a tragedy.

  BillSers 11:20 19 Jul 14

Latest is 38 bodies were removed from the site against international policy. They want to put a 12 mile exclusion zone around the crash.

Could the rebels really have made such a stupid mistake of shooting down a civilian plane?

  spuds 11:22 19 Jul 14

johndrew

It is very sad when innocent traveller's are killed, but war between people and nations do not select the innocent from the guilty on who dies or not.

I have stated on this forum many times, that I have no respect whatsoever with how the UN works, because the remits often given are just not acceptable in safeguarding those that need help and protection. Its not the armed forces fault, but the politicians who make the rules and don't want to cause upset among themselves?.

Perhaps coming back to the subject of airspace, I wonder how many passenger's on aircraft actually know or realise what is happening below them, at any given time, and the possible risks involved in that. I doubt if it enters most peoples head, because they regard that they are very safe at the altitudes they fly, not taking into consideration or thought of aircraft malfunctions, which are very rare.

Going on my earlier remark of flying over Cuban airspace. On the first journey I made on that route, there was absolutely no mention that escorted action would take place,either by the airline or their agents, it was just a sheer very scary surprise when it did suddenly happen. Even when it happened there was no information from the cabin crew or pilot, but I suppose it had become second nature to them?.

Thinking back, I lost count the amount of times I flew over Vietnam and the surrounding areas, when that conflicts in the area was very active. Never once did I assume, and I guess that went for everyone else, that I would or could have been part of that conflict through a possible 'mistake'. Strange how you think about these things 'after the event' and incidents like now, tend to remind you of what might have been?.

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