Basic Netting, anyone?

  JT2 00:12 30 Nov 05
Locked

Hi,

Tried several months now but just can't get it right. Can anyone assist w/ following?

Re: Need ((a)) basic *step-by-step procedure* for connect a ((b)) WIN98SE DESKTOP to a ((c)) XP Home Ed'n (SP2) NOTEBOOK via ((d)) 3-ft RJ45-RJ45 (CAT 5) network cable for the ((e)) *sole purpose* (nothing else) of transferring files between the 2 comps.

Bit of a dunce on the subject. Don't really know all the requirements. Read thru most applicable posts here but, tho' learned a bit, none I've seen seem to fully address the above (as defined by 'a' thru 'e' - in full).

Looking for something simple, as w/ the old LPT1 or serial com port DCC methods, which used to take
all of 5 minutes, at a cost of one homemade cable (software, compliments of Win/DOS Interlnk/Intersvr). To be sure, don't really need any complicated "networking" or ICS, as such; just simple, convenient, no fuss " file exchange" capability - at leasure - between the 2 types of comps and OS's.

That about covers it. Wanted to add some supplementary detail for historical and ref
purposes but looks like overshot the limit.
May prune that and get back here at first opportunity.

Thanx for now,

JT2


Below is for ref only, where time available for reading. I put it there in anticipation
of details being requested by anyone who might be able to assist on this. My line and ISP are so
inadequate here that sometimes I cut off every few minutes and might not be able to get back on line for
days (I can supply a histogram graph on my line activity to anyone who doubts this or thinks both of my comps are at fault). So it behooves me to include as much detail as possible, while I can.

  De Marcus™ 03:46 30 Nov 05

Hello JT2, to network the two machines for simple file transfer should be fairly straightforward.

First things first, plug the cable into each machine, the cable you use must be a crossover type and not a straight through type.

Next you need to open up the control panel on the xp machine and choose icon 'network setup wizard' and follow the instructions.

Next is the 98 machine, the following click here should give clear instructions on setting this side of it up.

Bear in mind that any firewalls on any machine will need configured to allow communication between the two pc's. If your not sure how to do this, disable your firewall whilst your also disconnected from the net. This will allow you to see that the network is working properly without the firewall hindering progress, once up and running, you can re-enable the firewall and configure.

  JT2 02:57 01 Dec 05

To: De Marcus

Few more details on situation. Following is late add to my 1st reply to
you (which I don't see at this Forum, though!):

(1) Checked link. Looks like only 1st item, top, applies, but not sure.
Some others mention 'removal' of some of the items in below menus
which I'd be reluctant to do. Don't need any "network" nor "ICS" - just
simple "file transfer".

(2) I note that a 'Network Card' (NIC ?) needed at each comp. Never
needed in DOS and old Win versions. True, it was for serial/parallel
ports. But why no simple program (option) to attain same via newer
USB & RJ45 ports? Just curious.

(3) Browsing elsewhere, extracted following bits from posts I saw:

"Actually, if you buy an x-over cable to go between the NIC's in both
computers, you don't need to use Microsoft's Direct Connect."

(What is ' Microsoft Direct Connect'?)

"If you only plan on sharing files between the computers, then using a
simple protocol like NetBEUI will work, and there is no configuration
required beyond enabling "File sharing" and then sharing what
resources you are going to share."

------------------
To: De Marcus: Any comment on above?
------------------

(4) Did look in some menus (see below) for Net Cards; but not
sure on lingo. What is easiest way to confirm NIC in each comp?
BTW, both are old hand-me-downs I've "cleaned up" a bit but they
still have old pre-configs for dial-up and networking, so on, which
I'd like to clear out.
-----------------------------

In 'Control Panel \ Network' at the Win 98 machine:

"Configuration" (tab display)
The following components are installed:
------------------------------------
Client for Microsoft Networks
Client for Microsoft Networks
3Com 3C920 Integrated Fast Ethernet Controller (3C905C-TX Compatible)
Dial-Up Adapter
3Com BCAATDI DMI TDI
3Com Diagnostic Communication Module (Do Not Delete)
IPX/SPX-compatible Protocol - >
3Com 3C920 Integrated Fast Ethernet Controller (3C905C-TX Compatible)
NetBEUI - >
3Com 3C920 Integrated Fast Ethernet Controller (3C905C-TX Compatible)
NetBEUI - > Dial-Up Adapter
TCP/IP - >
3Com 3C920 Integrated Fast Ethernet Controller (3C905C-TX Compatible)
TCP/IP - > Dial-Up Adapter
File and Printer Sharing for Microsoft Networks
===================

(Why are there some duplicate entries for some items above? Can some be
safely removed?)

(BTW, in System Information\ Components\Network, there are no less
than "10" identical sets of entries titled: " Client for Microsoft Networks".
Is this OK, or can 9 of these be deleted somehow?)

Primary Network Logon:
---------------------------------
Client for Microsoft Networks
Client for Netware Networks
Windows Logon
==================

(Possibly NIC is "3Com 3C920 Integrated Fast Ethernet Controller...".
Under "Descriptions" , seems to say it's a "hardware device".
--------------------------------

In 'Control Panel \ Network Connections' at XP machine :

Name - Type - Status -
-------- ------- ---------
1- Incoming connections Incoming No clients con'd
2- Local Area Connection LAN or HiSpeed Int Net cable unplugged

Device Name
-------------------
1- (blank)
2- Realtek RTL8139 Family PCI Fast Ethernet NIC

( "dial-up" items not shown above. Looks like "Realtek..." is the network card.)
------------------

When dbl-click item 2 (above), get a similar menu as "Network" in the Win 98
comp. In this case it is called "Local Area Connection Properties".

Under "Connect using:", it says: "Realtek RTL8139..."

When click "Configure", see device is "enabled".

Under "This connection uses the following items:", I see the following list:

1 >Client for Microsoft Networks
2 >File and Printer Sharing for Microsoft Networks
3 >QoS Packet Scheduler
4 >Network Monitor Driver
5 >NWLink NetBIOS
6 - NWLink IPX/SPX/NetBIOS compatible Transport Proto...
7 >Internet Protocol (TCP/IP)

Everything above is ticked, except 6.
===========

Can you advise, please?

JT2

  mgmcc 12:25 01 Dec 05

To be honest, I think you have totally confused yourself and made it all seem far more complicated than it actually is.

As you have IPX/SPX protocol installed in both computers, and provided you *DEFINITELY* have no need for internet access over the network, what I would suggest you do is this:

In the Windows XP PC's "Local Area Connection" Properties, untick Internet Protocol (TCP/IP) and ensure that "NWLink IPX/SPX/NetBIOS compatible Transport Protocol" *IS* ticked. Unlike TCP/IP, IPX/SPX doesn't need any configuration and it is not affected by firewalls.

In the Windows 98 PC, you already have IPX/SPX installed for the network adapter. (In Win 98, each adapter has its own entry for the various protocols - TCP/IP, NetBEUI, IPX/SPX - and they *ARE NOT* duplicates as you thought.) In the main Network Properties box, highlight the IPX/SPX entry that relates to your network adapter and select Properties - that is the entry for:

IPX/SPX-compatible Protocol - >
3Com 3C920 Integrated Fast Ethernet Controller (3C905C-TX Compatible)

In the NetBIOS tab, tick the box for "I want to enable etc.." and click OK. With Windows 98, you will need to reboot the computer after making changes to the Network Properties.

Now, connect the network adapters in the two PCs by plugging the "crossover" cable into their respective RJ45 ports, set any folders that you want to have available over the network as "Shared" in their Properties (you should set at least one folder in each PC as "Shared" to get them talking) and, if you open "My Network Places" (Network Neighborhood in Win 98) each PC should see an icon for both itself and the remote PC. Double clicking the icon should show the shared folders.

  JT2 23:26 01 Dec 05

Well, I wonder what I'm doing wrong here. 2nd
time now my post didn't go thru. Also had to sign in several times. Anywhow, try again now.

To: MGMCC

Roger that. As I said, just not on wavelength - but with this last answer, can't go wrong!

On half a dozen other forums (including MS), just couldn't get what I needed - as if nobody
really "read" the question. Odd.

Missed out on the revolution, don't understand the middle and the end and need to start at square 1. So thanks for all that, MGMCC, et al.
This looks like the best Forum around - so far.


Now for my next provocative question. After that I'll hold my peace and consider this resolved. Posted similar in my 2nd message but didn't arrive here. Before anyone tries to way lay me on this, like at other Forums, consider this:

Initially, got a USB-USB crossover w/ gizmo in center from local shop. 3 weeks round & round down the drain. Didn't work. Took back. Proved defective. Got different brand. 2 weeks down drain. Back to same shop. Their shop techs couldn't make this one work either. Got 3ft CAT 5e (Enhanced)which they said tested OK on their rigs (must have used a hub and never told me).

Another 2 weeks down drain. Quick look at packet. Made in China and said "Patch".
Diagram showed straight-thru pin-pin connections
for 1-8. By now was going mad. But my recent net
roaming enlightened me as to needfor "crossover" (like w/ the old com port serial DCC connection. Light went on!

Problem: Am retired (tech, believe it or not) and low on resources (believe it). Each roundtrip to that shop from here cost me near to 50 bucks, 4 x more than that cable. Can't afford. Try avoid another trip at all costs.

All I need now is the pin-out diagram showing the
pair or pairs that need to be twisted. Well aware of the potential consequences to integrity
and freq response of hi-freq cables. Not concerned. Meter & solder gun ready to stagger-splice, et al. Tired of the game. At long last, just want to see something on those screens - anything - to show me I'm on the right track - and before they put me on the funny farm.

If it works, fine; if not, cable is cheap enough to replace when get some more vitamin M. Not to worried about these 2 old hand-me-down comps either.

Now guys, can someone please help me out with this last request without reading me the riot act, like all those well meaning MVP's? Just the cable mod instructions, please, w/ sugar on it.

Appreciate,

JT2

  mgmcc 10:35 02 Dec 05

Ethernet pin-out: Crossover click here

Ethernet pin-out: Straight-wired click here

  JT2 18:29 02 Dec 05

To: mgmcc

You're a man of few words, mgmcc - but they're dead on! Exactly what I needed. Problem solved.

Let you know if I blow it all up...

Thanx a billion,

JT2

  JT2 01:31 04 Dec 05

To: mgmcc

Sorry to bug. Slight prblm. May be of interest. Checked few other links.

Each of 3 links give different wiring for crossover. May all have merit but can't risk. Even if buy NEW able, wouldn't know which type. Enough 'false leads' already. Here are links:

1. click here
2. click here
3. not sure (see below)

As to 3., power adapter on XP Notebook blew.
Used Win98 DELL. But for most pages (regardless of graphics), I get I/E error: "The web page could not be saved ...", So saved link 3. in "html only" format. Can't find any link to site in it. Did find email links in it when viewed guts.

Link 1:
(Note extra crossed set, compared to 2 - JT2)
(EIA 568-B*)
connector #1 connector #2
1 WHT/ORG 1 WHT/GRN
2 ORG/WHT 2 GRN/WHT
3 WHT/GRN 3 WHT/ORG
4 BLU/WHT 4 BLU/WHT
5 WHT/BLU 5 WHT/BLU
6 GRN/WHT 6 ORG/WHT
7 WHT/BRN 7 BRN/WHT (CROSSED)
8 BRN/WHT 8 WHT/BRN (CROSSED)
------------------

Link 2:

connector #1 I/D connector #2 I/D
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
1 WHT/ORG Tx+ 1 WHT/GRN Tx+
2 ORG/WHT Tx- 2 GRN/WHT Tx-
3 WHT/GRN Rx+ 3 WHT/ORG Rx+
4 BLU/WHT - 4 BLU/WHT -
5 WHT/BLU - 5 WHT/BLU -
6 GRN/WHT Rx- 6 ORG/WHT Rx-
7 WHT/BRN - 7 WHT/BRN -
8 BRN/WHT - 8 BRN/WHT -
-------------------------------------------------

Link 3. : (1000Base-T names in parentheses)

Name NIC1 Color NIC2 Name
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
TX+ (BI_DA+) 1 Wh/Org 3 RX+ (BI_DB+)
TX- (BI_DA-) 2 Orange 6 RX- (BI_DB-)
RX+ (BI_DB+) 3 Wh/Grn 1 TX+ (BI_DA+)
- (BI_DC+) 4 Blue 7 - (BI_DD+)
- (BI_DC-) 5 Wh/Blu 8 - (BI_DD-)
RX- (BI_DB-) 6 Grn 2 TX- (BI_DA-)
- (BI_DD+) 7 Wh/Brn 4 - (BI_DC+)
- (BI_DD-) 8 Brown 5 - (BI_DC-)
-------------------------
Confused over 4,7,8 - as compared to Link 2.)

Some notes on Link 3 page:

Note 1: It's important that each pair is kept as a pair. TX+ & TX- must be in the pair, and RX+ & RX- must together in another pair.

Note 2: While 10Base-T & 100Base-TX only uses 2 pairs, connect all four as 100Base-T4 & 1000Base-T needs them & save yrself future debugging.

Note 4: pinout of this cable differs from what people usually call a crossover cable since all pairs are swapped. If you need a crossover cable for use with special apps like serial cables, don't cross the pairs 4/5 and 7/8.

======
Note 2. doesn't specify "which" 2 pairs. Does this apply in my case? - JT2
======

Ethernet 10/100/1000Base-T & 100Base-T4 Crossover. This cable can be used to cascade hubs, or for connecting 2 Ethernet stations back-to-back without hub. Works with 10Base-T, 100Base-TX, 100Base-T4 & 1000Base-T.

HwB Ethernet 10-100-1000Base-T and 100Base-T4 Crossover Cable.htm

Copyright © The Hardware Book Team 1996-2004.
Contributor: Joakim Ögren, Niklas Edmundsson, Jim C?, Jason D. Pero, Oscar Fernandez Sierra, Cayce Balara, Jeffrey R. Broido, Patrick Smart, Jeffrey R. Broido, Kim Scholte

Source: IEEE Std 802.3, 2000 Edition
-------

Following are actual "Contributor" links extracted from guts of file:

<a href="../../comment/index.html">Joakim Ögren</a>,
<a href="../../comment/index.html">Niklas Edmundsson</a>,
<a href="mailto:[email protected]">Jim C?</a>,
<a href="mailto:[email protected]">Jason D. Pero</a>,
<a href="mailto:[email protected]">Oscar Fernandez
Sierra</a>,
<a href="mailto:[email protected]">Cayce Balara</a>,
<a href="mailto:[email protected]">Jeffrey R. Broido</a>,
<a href="mailto:[email protected]">Patrick Smart</a>,
<a href="mailto:[email protected]">Jeffrey R. Broido</a>,
<a href="mailto:[email protected]">Kim Scholte</a>

--------------

Is it harmful to connect a "straight" RJ45 cable between 2 comps? Is there any purpose for a "straight" connection?

Understand that a "straight thru" USB cble can fry motherboards.

Made both mistakes(?) initially but had no damage.

Can you advise, please?

JT2

This thread is now locked and can not be replied to.

AMD Ryzen release date, specifications and features: Three CPUs from the Ryzen 7 range now…

1995-2015: How technology has changed the world in 20 years

Glassworks Barcelona shows how it captured the artistic imagination of Conor in A Monster Calls

Best iPhone games 2017 | Best iPad games 2017: 162 fantastic iOS games that you need to play right…