Copyright:

  Sir Radfordin™ 18:55 10 Feb 03
Locked

Before I begin, let me say this is not a thread about the rights and wrongs of it, or about Kazaa or Napster or the price of CDs. Its just about copyright.

Have been asked by a Church Minister about the use of video/sound clips in Church services.

I quote

"The performance of the work in public is an act restricted by the copyright in a literary, dramatic or musical work"

and again

"In this Part "performance", in relation to a work includes delivery in the case of lectures, addresses, speeches and sermons"

So that indicates that copyright material can't be used in a sermon.

Again I quote:

"It is not an infringement of the copyright in a sound recording to play it as part of the activities of, or for the benefit of, a club, society or other organisation if the following conditions are met"

So, by that, I understand that a music clip can be used (providing the conditions are met) but that only applys to music clips and NOT to video.

Another quote:

"The showing or playing in public of a broadcast or cable programme to an audience who have not paid for admission to the place where the broadcast or programme is to be seen or heard does not infringe any copyright"

So, if something was on TV and was recorded could that then be played back?

based on the fact that "The making for private and domestic use of a recording of a broadcast or cable programme solely for the purpose of enabling it to be viewed or listened to at a more convenient time does not infringe any copyright in the broadcast or cable programme or in any work included in it"

Or can you not do that?

So the long and short of it is:

Without expressed permission of the copyright holder what music/video clips can be used in a Church service?

Consideration may need to be given to the fact that the service may also be recorded for the benefit of those unable to attend.

  Sir Radfordin™ 18:57 10 Feb 03

One should always give credit to the source:

click here


hmso.gov.uk/acts/acts1988/Ukpga_19880048_en_1.htm#tcon

  Stokey 19:44 10 Feb 03

Does a church need PPL (Public Performance Licence concerning Royalties Collection and copyright) and PEL?

It may be exempt I guess.

  Coaster3 19:53 10 Feb 03

I would suggest that Stokey is right. A church is not a club but is open to any member of the public always supposing that it is a normal church service.

  TOPCAT® 21:23 10 Feb 03

They will be claiming copyright next for Moses's writings of the Ten Commandments!

This is getting ridiculous. Soon we will fear to leave the house, or enter God's, if this creeping paranoia continues to smother us from all quarters. Is no place sacred anymore? TC.

  jazzypop 22:04 10 Feb 03

Churches are not exempt from Copyright requirements.

See click here for a brief introduction.

My understanding is that CCLI (Christian Copyright Licensing International) is the main agent that collects copyright fees from churches in the UK, and distributes them to copyright holders.

The easiest way to be sure is to speak to them - try Andy Bodkin, he's a very nice man.

  Sir Radfordin™ 22:57 10 Feb 03

Churches are however exempt from the new public performance licence for things like the annual nativity play!

I have been told that CCL are going to introduce a similar scheame foe the one already in place for song words/music for films though I don't think there has been much success in signing up the main stream producers.

TOPCAT® - fear not, the 10 Commandments were written long enough ago for them to no longer be covered by copyright! Though, if you are going on the basis that there is a God, he wrote them and he is still alive then the copyright could well exist.

The copyright on various translations of the bible is held by different publishers. NIV is Hodour and St... and the Bristish Bible Society hold the Good News Translation. Using extracts of those however is fairly simple!

  Forum Editor 23:31 10 Feb 03

observe the law of the land like all other organisations, and that includes the law of copyright.

Christian Copyright Licensing International is an organisation which exists to protect churches from breaking the copyright laws by charging each church an annual fee, and distributing the funds to the holders of copyright on thousands of hymns and religious songs. This means that the individual churches don't have to worry about making lots of separate copyright payments.

The Church minister in question will almost certainly be familiar with this process, and I would suggest that he/she contacts CCL to see if they can deal with this within their existing payment structure. Otherwise, it will be necessary to make individual payments to the various copyright owners - who may in such circumstances agree to a waiver.

  Sir Radfordin™ 08:32 11 Feb 03

Your telling me things I know...and not answering the question.

CCLI only really deals with songs of the hymn/religious genre.

Video and Secular music clips aren't covered in the same way.

Copyright law says:

"The showing or playing in public of a broadcast or cable programme to an audience who have not paid for admission to the place where the broadcast or programme is to be seen or heard does not infringe any copyright"

Thats the bit that needs interpretation on.

  Forum Editor 08:55 11 Feb 03

Apparently I'm not..........

If you took a few moments to read what you wrote yourself you'll see that I did answer your question.

The quotation you included in your last post refers to TV or radio broadcasts or cable transmissions. These are transmissions within the meaning of the act, and not recordings. The transmitting company has already dealt with any necessary copyright permissions for a public broadcast, but you are asking about something completely different.

You asked about Video and secular music clips. They are recorded, and are subject to copyright in the same way as any other recorded work. Technically a church must pay a copyright or public performance fee if it wants to play the material to a public audience. The church is no different to a nightclub in that respect. I answered your question by suggesting that the church minister asks CCL if they can deal with this as part of their normal service - they don't only deal with religious songs by the way.

If you tape a program from TV to watch later (time shifting) you are in the clear, PROVIDED you don't show the tape to a public audience. A church congregation is a public audience, and doesn't come within the definition of a club or society - there's no formal joining procedure, nor is there a register of members - anyone can walk into a church service at will.

That's two answers you've had.

  Sir Radfordin™ 09:32 11 Feb 03

Unfortunatly you are wrong on that final point. Most if not all churches do have a formal joining procedure and there is a register of members. True, you can still walk in to a service at will but you could also be stopped from doing so.

Copyright law says:

"It is not an infringement of the copyright in a sound recording to play it as part of the activities of, or for the benefit of, a club, society or other organisation if the following conditions are met."

(2) The conditions are—

(a) that the organisation is not established or conducted for profit and its main objects are charitable or are otherwise concerned with the advancement of religion, education or social welfare, and

(b) that the proceeds of any charge for admission to the place where the recording is to be heard are applied solely for the purposes of the organisation.

So that, in my understanding, clearly says that any sound recording can be used in a church service as its concerend with the advancement of religion and there is no admission charge so condition (b) does not matter.

What is not clear is if that is applicable to othe copyright works such as video and TV broadcasts.

This thread is now locked and can not be replied to.

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